At what point does the police have the right to demand ID? SHould be somewhere along about probably cause, shouldn’t it?
If the police do something stupid, should you
- Go along with it, letting them think that what they are doing is not stupid and encouraging them to continue doing it, or
- Say, “No! Bad Police! That is stupid-don’t do that!”
Which choice is less likely to get me handcuffed?
As noted above, the relevant standard is whether the officer can articulate a reasonable suspicion that the suspect has committed a crime or is about to commit a crime.
You can set your watch by Smapti.
I’m sure they don’t harass every couple that looks like this. I can believe some cops are more likely to be suspicious of them, and that’s awful.
1 obviously. Geeze, is that even a real question? Have you ever been pulled over by police who think that you are driving a way nicer car than you should be? I have. And you know what I did? Gave them my fucking license and registration, let them run checks on it to their little hearts content, and then took back my ID and drove off, bullet and handcuff free.
Is it or was it right or fair? Nope. But unless you WANT to be hassled, handcuffed and maybe tasered or shot it’s best to just go along with them, play their little game, and drive off…and THEN if you want to complain or make a big deal later, feel free.
Your question seems to be “Which choice is easiest for the police?”, while mine would be “Which choice is right in the long run for society?”
Must every interaction with law enforcement be viewed as an opportunity to martyr yourself on the altar of Social Justice?
If a stupid reason can be solid, then effectively they don’t need any reason at all. They can look at any person, under any circumstances, and imagine a “solid” reason, by this latitude. And apparently they will–at least these particular cops. The only way to rectify this kind of abuse–this kind of loosey-goosey reading of ruling–is for people to call them on their BS. Otherwise it won’t stop–which might be acceptable for those who are never on the receiving end of it, and for whom it’s easy to say, “Why didn’t she just show her ID, and accept the humiliation?”
Would she have been any less capable of “calling them on their BS” if she had shown them ID?
While this particular article uses the word, “partner,” several other sources identify Brian James Lucas as her husband.
It doesn’t really matter whether he was her husband or partner, however. In either case, being an inter-racial couple isn’t a crime.
I know many people are focusing on her failure to show ID, but that really shouldn’t be an issue, IMO. Also, from the video in the original link, it sounds as if she did try to verbally identify herself. What if she didn’t have ID on her? I know I usually don’t take my purse with me when I go for a walk in the neighborhood. The point is, from what I’ve seen, the police had nothing to base their assumption that she was a prostitute on, other than the fact that she was with a white man, thus no reason to detain and identify her.
Nobody’s talking martyrdom, but if your civil rights aren’t worth the slightest bit of inconvenience now and then, a “why” when told to do something, or even a “no” when told to give something that you feel is within your rights to withhold, then what are they worth? Martyrdom? Not necessarily. Just standing up.
No, all the ones that don’t end up in the newspaper don’t.
Just to be totally clear:
Smapti: would you please give your opinion of Ms Parks’ actions?
She was breaking the law.
She had the civil right not to show identification. The police also had the right to verify her identity by other means.
Do you suppose that if you are a policeman investigating a potential crime and the suspect refuses to verify that they are who they say they are, “Right, well, on your way then” is a more appropriate response than “Who is this person that doesn’t want the police to know who she is?”
Perhaps if they only stopped people for actual probable cause.
I admire her for what she did. But how would showing her ID have cleared things up? If you deliberately break the law and are willing to face the consequences to get change in, well, that’s a whole 'nother matter. She did the right thing at the right time and she did it knowing what the consequences would be. She is to be admired.
But I’m pretty sure if she could have simply cleared things up by showing her ID to the cops or something else like that she would have…and she would be a fool if she didn’t do so when she could have. Doesn’t make what the police were doing right, but it’s foolish to go through all that hassle when simply pulling out your wallet and showing them ID would have cleared things up (and made them look like the horses asses they were).
What potential crime were they investigating here, again? What they saw were two adults kissing.
I’ve asked you twice- can you show me how my interpretation of Terry, in which disagree that police have the right to ask for identification in the absence of probable cause or an ongoing investigation, is wrong?
If it’s not wrong, then since they didn’t have probable cause (stupid cause isn’t good enough), she didn’t do anything wrong.