Kitchen appliances -- opinions?

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’m rebuilding my kitchen. The current kitchen sucks and I hate it, so it’s a no-brainer and I’m lucky enough to have cash-in-hand (and grease-in-elbow) right now to do it.

Now I’m not so vain that I’m replacing the kitchen because it looks awful (even though it does) but it’s twofold – it doesn’t let me work efficiently, and the clincher: resale value.

So when we bought the place almost 3-years ago, we did some improvements to make it tolerable, which in retrospect were a waste. One of those improvements was replacing the original 1984 contractor-model freestanding range with a totally-awesome-dude slide in model, and it was muy expensivo (well, not a Viking, but to me it wasn’t cheap).

Now, though, I’m considering the virtues of a separate cook top and separate, dual wall-oven with microwave. Talking pure money today, the simple, cheap option is to keep my range. But (and vanity checking in here): it seems like upscale home kitchens always have a nice cook top and separate wall oven. Aside from weighing the little bit of vanity that I have against my inherent cheapness, I’ve reached an impasse, which is a nice segue into the heart of my question finally:

[ol]
[li]Is there a significant workspace advantage to having a wall oven with integral microwave? The microwave portion would be about the same height as the current over-the-stove microwave, but the advantage would be that it’s not over the stove. But what about the oven? I’m 6’2" and hate leaning into the range oven, so I guess there’d be some benefit to the higher elevation. I’ll confess, though, that I don’t use the oven a whole heck of lot; the Wagner is my choice when it comes to all manner of meat (yeah, even in February), and other oven use would be intermittent.[/li][li]Okay, point number 1 clearly points towards keeping the range (or please, feel free to persuade me otherwise if I’m wrong!). This point, though, regards resale value. I tend to think that the built-in look is kind of higher-class. Will this thing at least pay for its depreciated value in home values in say, 5 to 10 years (it’ll still be “like new” then). When my wife complains I won’t buy here a bedroom set but yet I’ll put on a new roof a few years early (having the money in hand), I always point out that if it’s something that’ll help the house value then it’s not a waste.[/li][/ol]

So please help me reach a decision! I’m really at an impasse here – spend the dough and call it an investment, or pocket the savings for 5% apy in my Interest Advantage account???

2

It’s really a matter of personal preference and how you cook. Until we bought our house 2 years ago, I’d never, ever cooked on a “range” before; always and only with a separate stove/cook top, wall oven and countertop microwave. I never knew how much I’d hate, hate, hate – no, loathe this all-in-one piece of crappola.

My husband and I enjoy cooking together, and with this ridiculous setup, we simply can’t. While one of us is trying to sautee some onions, the other one inevitably needs the first to duck, so they can get to the microwave, or step aside so the oven can be accessed to get to the roasting veggies or whatever. HATE. OMG I have no idea how anyone can stand to cook on these contraptions and I will never, ever buy another house that has a kitchen with a range.

But that’s just my opinion. I’m sure others will vary, as these “professional” ranges seem to be all the rage these days. Go figure.

ETA: Oh, and with a wall oven, I wouldn’t have to have flames practically licking my ankles by having to broil on the dang floor! HATE. Hate this thing.

Whew. I feel better now, thanks. :slight_smile:

3

The main point of a cooktop and separate wall ovens is to have a gas cooktop and electric ovens.

I wouldn’t bother with an in-wall microwave, personally. We’ve got a small micro on top of the fridge and it only gets used about once a week - there’s just no way we’d ever be able to justify the price of instaling one.

4

I had a cooktop. Loathed the thing. Stupid thing could not maintain even heat. Worst item I have ever cooked with. However, it was atop a convection oven and that I did like. If I were to change what I have now, I’d go for regular stove with elements and a convection oven.

If you’re really wanting a cooktop, I suggest you read reviews and talk to people. There may be some good ones but I’m very dubious now.

When I think ‘cooktop’, I think this , with halogen elements. Stupid, stupid things.

I did try a toaster/convection oven combo (from a supposed high-end manufacturer!) which didn’t work very well at all and, because the space inside is so much smaller, it got pretty messy so I’m not sure I’d want a smaller wall-mounted oven.

I don’t think I’d want a microwave in the wall so much unless there’s a counter nearby. As it is, if I take something really hot out of the microwave, I just let it land on a hot pad on the counter underneath.

So I’d say think on how much you use each appliance, how important it is to you that it performs well and is easy to clean, and how you use the space around it.
I’d think of resale last, since you could get something that appears good for resale but will drive you right nuts to use. No fun at all, that.

5

I grew up with a cooktop and separate double wall oven (this was pre-microwave). Cooktop was fine - in fact the one in Mom’s kitchen was extra wide and had space in the middle for a griddle surface (that was covered with a metal sheet most of the time and used to set things on). The cooktop was one of the traditional spiral ceramic coil things and worked just fine with keeping temps even. That’s the same thing we have now (though standard width w/o the extra stuff in the middle) and this one also works just fine.

I’ve never used a smoothtop cooktop or range so I have no clue how nice they are to cook on. I prefer a gas cooktop - Balthisar, if you’re thinking of going with separate cooktop and wall oven, that’s a nice choice (electric oven for more even heating, gas cooktop for faster temp changes).

The nicest thing with having the two separate is as Shayna said, not getting in each other’s way. Double wall-ovens (ignoring the microwave question here) are nice but really, we only use them on big holidays. The rest of the time, the bottom oven is where we store our roasting pan etc. :slight_smile: I love having it but it’s not essential.

A friend of mine just did a massive kitchen renovation. Tons and tons of counter space, room for two microwaves, huge double sink with disposal in each side… and a nice, higher-end, standard range unit. Everyone looks at her like she’s from Mars for not going with a double wall oven but she swears she doesn’t miss it. The point being, you have to decide what feels right for you and how you like to cook unless you’re getting a strong vibe that the choice would be atrocious There aren’t that many kitchen decisions that would blow a whole house purchase for me (e.g. there were stupid decisions made in my current kitchen but I’m living with them until we can afford to redo them).

With a cooktop or a range, you also have the option of a microwave hood combination. That’s what we have - and what we had in our last house as well. Great idea but the units themselves… well, let’s just say we have a countertop microwave right now and the built-in range hood works well enough as a kitchen timer, and so-so as a vent hood. If you’ve got room for a microwave elsewhere (countertop or built into the wall) that would be my recommendation. This unit died within a year of our moving in. Apparently the unit at our last house, which we had put in new a year before we moved, died within a few months after we moved out. I’ve literally never had another microwave fail but these both did.

Another option for the microwave is: you can have them set in a cubby below the countertop. My brother and sister-in-law did that when they remodeled their kitchen because it happened to work out that way. I don’t think they loved it but it was the best fit for their layout and they got used to it.

6

Who cooks the greatest portion of the three squares in your house every day?

You or your wife? If the answer sounds like, “I do cook but not the number of meals the Mrs puts together”, than the answer is clear, it seems to me.

Defer to her preference with equanimity.

{Notice the equanimity, it’s very important. :smiley: }

7

These are now available in a single unit. Gas top, electric oven.

8

I’m drawing up plans that sound almost identical to the OP. Take a look at Viking’s site for a few pics of wall ovens with microwaves over top (just let the page sit there and the flash video at the top will cycle through several different kitchens). I was afraid that the μwave would be too high or the oven too low, but I visited a nearby showroom and it works.

What do you do if there’s a turkey in the oven and you need a microwave to zap to water?

9

I’ve had both and don’t really have a preference (and I cook a lot). We’ll probably go with a range when we build. Unless you tend to cook with your spouse a lot, I don’t see a problem with the range. I prefer a counter-top microwave away from the main cooking triangle, but that’s just me. Built in microwaves are expensive and when it has to be replaced eventually it’s going to be a pain. None of this is going to affect the appraisal price of the house either way.

One point: when we had the separate wall oven, the cook top was a downdraft. Bane of my existence, that thing. Food would fall into it, and it was just deep and narrow enough that you couldn’t get your arm into it to clean it. Also, it let cold air in in the winter and warm air in in the summer–we had to keep folded towels on it to keep drafts out. I HATED that thing.

10

Be it range or cooktop, I do love the modular aspect of JennAir. Dragged my old JennAir to the new abode, just cuz it’s so nice.

11

I’d rather have a range, but then, I’m short. Pulling hot food out of something that’s high, rather than bending and picking it up sounds scary to me. A nice gas range, which can switch to convection, with 6 burners (or 4 burners plus one of those nice grills) sounds fabulous. Convection ovens are awesome; I’d love to have the ability to use one (other than my small toaster oven/convection oven) when roasting meats.

12

Is there a reason you can’t keep the slide in range and add a wall oven/microwave combo? You lose out on some storage space, but save money on buying a new cooktop, and you increase your value by having two ovens, which is really nice for Thanksgiving.

13

Unless you’re pressed for space and just can’t find a spot for a wall oven, I can’t recommend dual-fuel ranges.

You get the inconvenience of all the kitchen action happening right there, and the prices on them are silly-high, and more than the price of their respective sections.

14

Lots of great comments! I’m embarrassed that I didn’t even think of Cheesesteak’s idea of keeping the range and adding the oven.

Just be default I was considering the wall oven to be electric “double” wall oven, wherein the upper oven is really a microwave. But now you’ve all given me something else to worry about. If the microwave bonks out, that’s an entire unit. I currently have an over-the-range micro/hood combination. It replaced a dedicated hood, and as a consequence the cabinet it’s mounted to is too low and I’ve grown to despise this arrangement because I can’t fit a wort pot below it. I imagine I can adapt the wall-oven cabinet to accomodate separate single-oven cabinets and either (1) a built in microwave only (if they exist) or (2) just put a shelf there and toss in a generic countertop model on the shelf. I’d hate to lose any counter top space to a counter top model. The separate units also have the advantage that it’s super easy to run a new gas line (gas oven) and I won’t have to add a new 220 circuit for the dual unit.

It sounds like resale value doesn’t enter into it at all?

My wife does most of the cooking most of the time, but her cooking style is frustratingly slow, space conscious, and efficient in the sense that consumes little space. I work by getting out everything I possibly need, setting up mise en place, an consuming every inch that’s available to me. So, she’s given me free reign on the design choices. Sometimes when I’m doing the cooking, she’ll be in the kitchen and get in my way. I think our basic redesign will solve a lot of that; perhaps I’ll give more thought to different approaches to the wall oven, then.

15

This is what my mother has in her kitchen: a gas range (with gas for both top and oven) and a separate wall oven, electric, with a microwave above it (though not a combo unit; two wall spaces with two separate appliances; saves replacement cost if one or the other conks out). I love cooking at my mother’s place. I use the electric oven for conventional baking and roasting, or for when I need to give something a blast of high heat, and I use the gas oven for keeping things warm, and low-temperature cooking (the gas “broiler” is crap, and the oven box doesn’t build and retain heat the way the electric box does). Best of both worlds.

16

FTR, that’s the setup my sister has. Fancy Viking 6 burner range, wall oven, wall microwave. It’s a really nice kitchen to work in.

17

Whatever you decide to do, I suggest that you buy appliances which have a very neutral look. In other words, don’t go with the latest “fashion” for kitchens. (In years to come, that stainless steel look is going to be just as dated and undesirable as the teal green and pinks of the 50s.)

18

Appliance guy here. I don’t have time to post right now, but I know just about everything there is to know about major appliances. Send me an email.

19

I think a double wall oven is a big mistake. We had one in my Mom’s house, and the kitchen looks so much better since we got rid of it. It looks much bigger for two reasons. The first is that the wall oven breaks up the line of the counter top. One continuous counter top looks a lot bigger than two smaller chunks. The second is that a range top takes up a lot of space. Our kitchen just looks so much better without this giant double wall oven taking up space.

It’s a very rare occasion that you will need two big ovens when cooking. Even if you want two ovens, a smaller second oven works much better. The range we have is something like this. I’d say we use the top oven 95% of the time and the bottom 5%. The top oven pre-heats much faster and (I presume) takes up less electricity. The only time you need a big oven is if you are cooking a Turkey, Roast, or something like that. Everything else fits nicely in the top oven.

20

treis, I like the look of that range, and the double oven is kind of neat! It reminds me of a dishwasher I just saw, oddly enough.

In my case, the wall oven won’t break up a countertop; it’s at the end of a run. By removing the current penninsula and rotating it into the dining room, we’re seriously opening up the space compared to how it is now, too. Also I guess I’m not looking at a true double oven; the upper oven would actually be a microwave, so it would still be only one, true oven, without the worry of having to find a space for a separate microwave.

Update: Someone let me know about the existence of Sears Appliance Outlets, and I took a gander yesterday. Holy crap! Being cheap is no longer holding me back; I can get all of my appliances for just a hair more than I’d budgeted for a fridge. About the only downside is I’ll have to get a little tube of appliance paint for the occasional chip or scratch…