I’m a white guy who’s bigoted against white guys? 
No, I’m a white guy who doesn’t give a shit about being called a cracker.
Plus you’re mixing two different arguments. I first said that only bitches whine about being called crackers and I stand by that. I also said that white people are not discriminated against and you named a bunch of groups who are discriminated against by white people for reasons other than skin color.
White people are not an oppressed minority. Blow me.
Oh, Jesus Christ. Do you work at the University of Virginia?
Yes, I know where the word “ghetto” comes from. I learned about it at Hebrew school ;j
Sorry, white crybabies, but the bigotry faced by your immigrant ancestors, while absolutely deplorable, do NOT mean that you, today, in 2003, face the same discrimination.
Black people do.
John Corrado, no offense to the pain faced by your family, but you can drive an expensive car and not worry about getting pulled over by suspicious cops. You can expect that you won’t be steered away from certain neighborhoods if you go househunting and that your loan won’t be redlined. You don’t have to worry that your skin color means that “fit the profile” in any given crime. You have a wealth of positive role models in your commmunity and you have a reasoanble expectation that if you call a cab or a pizza delivery service, that they will come.
The political and business leaders of this country are almost all white, the rich of this country are almost all white, the elite of this country count very few non-white faces.
And no epithet directed at white, Christian people is anywhere as hateful, as loaded with historical and cultural baggage as “nigger.”
The Armenian Holocaust was a horror, but it has no relevance to the racial history of the United States, nor does the WWII Holocaust.
"There ain’t no white man in this room that will change places with me—and I’m rich. That’s how good it is to be white. There’s a one-legged busboy in here right now that’s going: “I don’t want to change. I’m gonna ride this white thing out and see where it takes me.” -Chris Rock
White Southerner here! What DtC was pointing out was that these people in the examples given (Appalachian settlers, the Irish, the Scots) were not oppressed because of their race and he is right! Most whites have not suffered because they are white.
I’ve never thought of “cracker” as a racial slur. I’ve thought of it as more of a nickname – just like “Yankee” is a nickname. Some Southerners have a way of saying it under their breaths that conveys contempt and I’m sure that “cracker” can be used that way too. But it is not always intended in that way.
If someone takes offense to it, however, it goes on my list of words that I probably will avoid except in discussion of the word itself. I don’t like hurting people’s feelings and if they say they are sensitive, I take them at their word generally.
However, Mr. Cynic, I have a bone to pick with you. So often you and I see eye to eye. Or at least you turn me to your way of thinking. I am a member of a group that has been oppressed in our society to the extent that most sensitive people, such as yourself, don’t even notice when they are putting them down. I don’t object to the use of the words bitch or pussy, but I would appreciate it if these synonyms for women were not used as if they meant weakling or fool or coward. If you do it again, the teacher might make you go sit with the girls. :rolleyes:
Strawman. No one’s saying we do. Just that you can’t say this bullshit:
(Implying that whites haven’t.)
That’s like saying “People in Africa are starving to death, don’t complain about [whatever].”
Strawman. It was an example of whites being discriminated against.
For somebody who was more than willing to impute motives and knowledge to other people’s posts, I’m incredulous that you would fail to do so in Dio’s post. I thought it was plenty clear that he was confining his statement to the United States.
Um, why do you think it’s “plenty clear” that it was?
All rightie. Did you talk to any white farmers in Zimbabwe recently? They’d beg to fucking differ, lemme tell you.
Since you already expanded on your statement that the earlier white-on-white examples of discrimination outside the US (Ireland, Armenia) were invalid because they were not about race, rather than denouncing them because they did not concern the United States directly, I’m assuming my Zimbabwe example of black-on-white racism is relevant also, or will at least not be dismissed because it isn’t American.
Racism exists, it comes from all angles, and it’s fucking ugly, whenever and wherever it occurs. There’s no need to soften the message by putting it into some sort of weird historical conscience perspective: it doesn’t matter that Johnny’s great-great-great-grandfather owned Tom’s great-great-great-grandfather as a slave. When Tom calls Johnny a honky, he’s a racist.
Have you ever been refused entry into a club because you’re the wrong “race?” Ever had people prefer to stand on a train than sit beside you, or noticed that people shy back if they realized they’ve touched you? Ever been hassled by police for being in a ‘nice’ neighbourhood after dark?
I have. And I’m a pasty-white northern European type.
I’m vastly amused by this ego-centric “white folk have never been discriminated against” bullshit. It’s unfortunate that your world-veiws and experiences are so narrow, but the fact that you’re ignorant doesn’t make absurd assertations about situationally-acceptable racial slurs valid.
Tolerating racist propaganda against anyone makes you part of the problem. Until society denies racism in all of its forms, there will be an atmostphere of acceptance that ensures it survives.
Well said. That’s all I tried to say back on Page 1, and then came the thinly veiled charges of being a “whiny bitch” and a “crybaby”. Who knew?
I didn’t think it was possible to defend racism, racial slurs, or racially charged language meant to demean another human under any circumstances and with any qualifiers. But repeatedly we have people doing just that on a message Board dedicated to “fighting ignorance”. Call me silly, but that doesn’t seem intelligent, socially liberal, or constructive and positive.
I personally view all races, colours, creeds, and nationalities as being equally worthy of mutual respect and tolerance. Without exception and without weasel-words, strawmen, and logical gymnastics to qualify it. And think, I’m an “evil”, white, middle-class conservative too. Who’da thunk it? :rolleyes:
Of course I was talking about the US…and I’m pretty sure “cracker” doesn’t exist as a slur outside the US. I’m amazed that any white American would try to pretend that he or she has suffered because of skin color. It’s a crock. It’s bullshit. It doesn’t exist.
Frankly, I think that any white person who whines about being called cracker (well in this case, a KKK moron being called a “cracker”) is sort of trivializing real bigotry by pretending that their own anguish from reading the word “cracker” on the internet puts them in the same category as those who are called much worse things by people who actually had power over their lives. I don’t feel sorry for you that you read an insulting term being applied to an ignorant, racist asshole. I didn’t see it as some horrible slur against white people. That’s because I am an adult, not a sensitive, self-absorbed child.
Zoe:
Your exception to my terminology is noted and accepted. I will try to find words to insult people which carry no taint of misogyny (and please believe that none was ever intended).
Coldfire:
Like I said, I was talking about the US and “cracker” is an Americanism. Although it is sometimes applied to all white people it is more often applied to lower class, uneducated Southern whites. it’s pretty much interchangeable with “white trash.”
“Honky” is almost comically cheesy and passe. I’ve never heard it used with any seriousness in my life.
Well, I’m not up to speed on my American racist terms, then. Insert the black-to-white version of the n-word for where I said honky.
Pointing out racism doesn’t become invalid when more serious or more widespread examples of racism exist. Bigotry is bigotry. Your logic is similar to telling the cop who just pulled you over that speeding is OK, since other people burgle houses.
Damn it. I hate it when I can see and agree with both sides. Cracker doesn’t bother me. White trash does. (Even though I know that I have faced almost no discrimination because of my being white.)
If “Bigotry is bigotry,” then why are some bigoted remarks tolerated at SDMB and some are not? Or is my perception off?
I think I will start another thread on this.
Your perception’s not off, look at any thread which contains a discussion of Scientology (or as it’s usually spelled: $cientology). The comments directed at those folks who practice Scientology would result in an “insta-ban” if they were made against any other religion. Yet, because we apparently have no Scientologists posting here (or at least admitted Scientologists), it’s A-OK to go after them.