Actually, I think the adminstration would do well to watch this story - I would see this as having big potential for backlash for them. So while I’m fairly distrustful of the administration, I don’t believe they had any level of control over the WaT (which, of course, is one of the major problems IMHO).
My God! I was just joking, but you acutally believe this. What kind of monster are you???
Look, it’s simple. Go back and read the orignal New Republic article.
The Bush administration tells the Pakistanis: “We really want a big catch during the DNC. Give us one and you’ll see some quid pro quo down the line. Maybe those F-16s you want. Or maybe we’ll go easier on you about your sloppy nuclear program.”
Today’s announcement provides additional confirmation that the original New Republic article was correct. The fact that the catch is not a big headline grabber is immaterial. The Pakistanis just can’t make OBL materialize on demand.
The point is not that someone was captured during the convention. It’s that someone was captured during the convention after a bunch of sources independently said that the White House was trying to engineer that someone would be captured during the convention.
It’s unethical for the White House to be using its reationship with foreign governments to help it win elections. It’s precisely this sort of misuse of government resources for political gain that got Nixon in trouble. Over and over again the Bush White House demonstrates that its an ethical black hole that puts its own political survival and the finances of its cronies ahead of the safety of the American people.
If you can demonstrate that this is true, and not some made-up scenario, then you’ve got a point. Right now, it’s just speculation of the outlandish sort.
BTW, what other person of this sort (ie, a true HVT) have the Pakistanis produced on schedule?
But I do have my tin foil hat ready just in case ObL is captured in mid-Oct. Do you?
Would anybody be happy if we capture or kill OBL, or would you just point to President Bush trying to use the capture for politcal gain?
For God’s sake, we’ve been looking for him for nearly four years. Don’t you think we’re due for a break by now on landing on the son of a bitch?
If it was announced just hours before his primary rival was supposed to give his acceptance speech at the DNC? Especially when the HVT was caught four days ago?
Man, if that doesn’t set off alarm bells in your head, something is seriously defective…
Umm… since I’ve already moved over to the cynical conspiracy line…
La la la… 
If my inquiry came across as rhetorical, it was not… without trying to be Euro-centric, I have found that the ‘search’ function doesn’t always yield good results with Arabic names when there seem to be multiple ways to spell the same name. So I do appreciate your alerting me to the particular discussion, and my inquiry about whether his name was mentioned was sincere and not snarky.
Now, that said… I must say that there are a heck of a lot of people that would qualify as an “HVT,” especially since, unlike the playing cards for Iraq, there’s not even a definitive list of HVT names, as far as I know. Again drawing my “psychic” analogy – if we were evaluating the claims of a self-professed psychic, would we score this event a hit or refuse to score it for lack of specificity?
- Rick
No. The mainstream media does not seem to have the courage to really go after Bush. They will report it only in glowing triumphic terms to the extent that they report it at all. Now that I think of it, this is probably a disappointment for the Bushies and maybe a “fuck you” from the Pakastanis. They coughed up an HVT but it wasn’t one of the ones that Bush really wanted. The White House can’t say that Pakistan didn’t deliver its order, but they delivered the twenty dollar champagne instead of the Dom.
Sarcasm, huh? You’re being evasive, Mace, you usually don’t do that. All you have to do to make me take off my aluminum headgear is explain why the White House would specify a particular week in July for the Pakistanis to deliver a terrorist. Shouldn’t “when the fuck ever you catch one” be the more practical policy?
And is it just a coincidence that the week they specified is the week of the DNC?
Right! They should have called Rjung, who knows every terrorist in the world, to come in and do an instant verification! “Yup, that’s the guy, now take 'im away… can’t have him disrupting our carnival!” Shit, why waste time with all this “identity verification” and crap? Don’t they have bar codes and transmitters implanted in every citizen, like we do?
It’s possible this whole thing was staged or planned or whatever by Bush. I just find it very hard to get the solid type of evidence I’d need to see in order to actually believe it. I can think of any number of reasons that “unnamed Pakaistani officials” might say all sorts of things either favorable or not favorable about Musharif (sp?) or Bush. Is this the supposed “HVT” of the earlier rumor? I dunno. How many Dopers ever heard of this particular guy before today? It’s like the movie where you’re absolutely sure you know the ending, only to find out that there are all sorts of pieces to the puzzle that the director chose not to show until the end.
Furthermore, I don’t find these types of stories to be helpful toward the larger question-- do I want to vote for Bush or for Kerry. On that issue, I’ll make a judgement on the really hard facts that are out there. Things that don’t require **any ** aluminum foil at all to understand.
And if the mainstream press is too timid, how about Kerry himself? If this story is so rock-solid, when will Kerry come out and tell us how Bush is manipulating the war on terror to win votes?
Come on John, you’re one of the smart posters on this board. If the current administration can capture HVT’s at will, that would mean they let these terrorist roam free to plan, contact people and organize for more terrorist attacks. Do you really believe that?
As for the news itself, you can all be sure that every time Pakistan conducts a raid and captures a person suspected af being a high level terrorist, a phone call is made to the authorities in the country where he’s wanted. The administration new about this ahead, the only question is how far ahead. Did the US have to supply DNA, for instance?
And I can also tell you, based on my years of work as a “spin master” in Public Relation, that never ever has a government official scheduled a press conference or a major news break past midnight local time, unless the story is already ongoing.
My take on this is that Pakistan had intelligence data which they acted upon now, possibly after some time of surveillance. They get a friendly, but not warm, nod from the US. They have proven that they can and some of the pressure is off, yet is not a home run.
I don’t think it’s rock solid, i just think it’s fishy. If there had been no New Republic story I wouldn’t give it a second thought. I’m not accusing, I’m asking- why did they specify the week of the DNC for a capture? It’s awfully coincidental if nothing else- not that they caught a dude during the week of the DNC but that they caught one after a New Republic story said that they were pressuring Pakistan for such a capture during this very week.
I’m willing to give a wide degree of latitude for genuine happenstance. It’s possible that the capture on sunday was pure chance. Having said that, There’s no doubt in my mind that they would hold off on an announcement to manipulate the news cycle- that’s just fucking routine politics. If the Dems get a video of GWB molesting a poodle tomorrow, they will save until it’s Bush’s night to speak at the RNC. That’s just part of the game, There’s nothing exceptionally dirty about it and it requires no foil products to suspect it. It’s using a fortuitous event to the best political advantage. I would not cry conspiracy for that.
It’s just that I’ve got a little Columbo in the back of my head with that one last little question. Why did they specify that THIS would be a preferred week for a capture.
Oh- and Kerry can’t make an issue of it because if he did, the media would make him out to be a loon. He’d be cutting his own throat.
I agree. The whole set-up just reeks. These are highly sensitive times for the opposition, crucial even. Whoever Bush arrests from now on should be kept entirely secret until November. No more fucking leaks. That’s for the good of the country. And no more terror alerts, either. Can’t they just flood the streets with secret police without making any announcements? What that? Plain clothes, of course, what are you, some kind of stupid?
This has already been addressed.
I’m not sure about any July suprise, but I must say I’m a little more than troubled that Todd Bridges has been arrested.
Do I sense a note of sarcasm?
Like I said, I would not be suspicious if the White House had not told Pakistan, “Listen, fuckos, we need a big bust around the last week of July. Sometime early in week would just rock. No later than thursday, though, m’kay?”
Remove that element from the story and I ould be a carping crackpot for making an issue of this. At least explain it. Provide a non political reason why this week was more optimal than last week for the capture of “any HVT” (including Sammy the B, by the way). It may very well be that there’s a very good reason that I’m too stupid to see. For the time being though I’m going to have to say :dubious:.
What a mindless fucking idiot you are, Bricker. Of all the mindless fucking idiots on these Boards, Bricker, you have got to be the most mindless, idiotic fucker of them all.