IMHO: A simple instinctive equation; sex and/or romance + men = good. Just as straight men often have a thing for girl/girl; heterosexuals are wired to find anything involving the opposite gender and sex/romance interesting.
There’s a bit of a leap taking place in the middle there. Say it’s true that it’s a universally (or nearly) straight-male thing that we’re just getting perfunctorily dismissed all the time, and say that it’s also true that it’s a nearly universally female thing that they want somebody who can drive the bus, so much so that the sort of condition you mentioned actually applies (I think these are generous stretches, but say they’re true): why does that mean anybody’s being treated like shit? Whether or not it’s true, pace the visionary Shagnasty, that women in general like being dominated, it can still be true that any given woman doesn’t want to be dominated by, say, the next guy walking by on the street, or the next guy, right? And if that’s the case that dude’s getting rejected one way or the other. And there isn’t a damn thing he can do about it… provided that he’s going to keep asking women to go on record as to whether or not they want to be dominated by him.
That’s where I think this all gets very murky and difficult to be clinical about. If there’s a larger moral value that’s going to attach to the simple question of whether or how we want to have sex with somebody, no pun intended, we’re all basically fucked no matter what we feel. A guy can say he wants to dominate women and seem like a rapist from one perspective, or he can say he absolutely doesn’t want to dominate a woman and he can seem unsexed from a different perspective. And the options for a woman are even grimmer. There are some really fundamental questions going unresolved in there that kind of prevent us from talking about fantasy as fantasy.
But I stated this isn’t about our harmless fantasies: it’s about control (the very thing fantasy is there give us relief from). Simply stated: you don’t liberate yourself by subjugating someone else (sexually or otherwise). And you’re not kidding any of us when you bottom from the top.
(missed the edit window, a guaranteed occurrence for iphoners)
Yes, of course women get to choose which man sparks her subbiness. Or not really “choose,” since all forms of intimacy are based on mysterious phenomenon. But not just any joker will do it for her.
My complaint is that “Oh, I’d totally let you pull my hair and spank me, if only you could be a REAL man” sounds suspiciously similar to “Hey, don’t blame me if I can’t get a hardon any more: you’re the one who let herself get ten pounds overweight.” That’s not a secret desire. It’s a chip on the shoulder.
But all your complaint is premised on is the fact that a guy has to deal with rejection. You’re adding this gloss about “if only you could be a real man,” but even in the anonymous generic scenario you described there was none of that actually coming from the woman. It’s just the way you are coloring the exchange that happens when he wants it and she doesn’t.
Your complaint is that it’s about control. My complaint about your complaint is that you’re making it about control when it could be something much simpler.
I like the theory that women want men with both alpha and beta qualities. Beta qualities are the “caring for you” things: cooking, cleaning, playing with the kids. Alpha qualities are the “He can protect me” things: killing spiders, getting out of bed to check that noise, fending off bad guys. It is also very alpha to be sexually aggressive (and I don’t like the word aggressive, but can’t think of a better one). The beta qualities make you feel loved and secure. The alpha qualities get you sexually interested.
I’m paraphrasing and not getting the idea completely right. But in a nutshell.
It seems to me the traditional art of “being a man” is lost on this generation. When I was growing up, men were expected to do manly shit. Be awesome at sports. Fight wars. Kick ass. Be awesome at business. But at the same time, you treated people, especially women, with respect. Nowadays it’s one or the other extreme. Guys are either dumbass wanabee “alpha male” douchebags who just act like fucking stupid jerkoffs. Or they are these delicate shrinking violets who can’t figure out how to assert themselves, let alone get laid.
Some evidence suggests that the increase of women’s power in contemporary society leads to an increase in “forceful submission” fantasies.
I’ve heard the same claimed of men; that the more they are in an “in charge” position in public, the more likely they are to enjoy submissive fantasies in private.
“Traditional manliness” was anything but respectful to women. “Beat her until she submits” is a more accurate way of describing it. Traditional masculinity is about thuggishness and being a control freak; the “traditional men” are the ones who freak out and massacre their own family when they can’t maintain that position of dominance and control.
It depends on what you mean by “domination”, I’ve read Twilight, I didn’t think much of it one way or the other, I got the impression it was more about a weak woman who needed a strong man in her life because she was just a bit too pathetic to stand up for herself. Rather than her being a strong feminist who was beaten down by some meathead.
Just IME, my mother was a domineering battleaxe -to put it mildly, she was (and still is) a selfish, spiteful, miserable cow who isn’t happy unless she’s destroying other people’s lives. My father was whatever the politically correct term for a cripple is, he had a bad heart and thus my vision of the world was a bit skewed, women were the dominant force in a marriage and men were weak and pathetic. I never set out to find me a strong man who could take care of me, I learned to take care of myself.
I couldn’t relate to Bella at all, but on some level I do understand wanting a man to take care of you. I’m tired of having to be the strong one who copes with everything. I’d like for once for someone to step up and take over and let me sit down with my feet up.
Or failing that, to know their place and defer to men who did do those things.
If your view is correct (and I’m not saying it is), we’ve probably lost some of that deference, too - non-alphas may feel entirely too entitled.
Do men like to be dominated?
Many men might fantasize, for example, about an ultra-gorgeous Thai kickboxing champion luring him into her dressing room and having her way with him, and then confessing that “you make me feel like a real woman” and that she actually just needs someone as fascinating and manly as him to tame her.
A smaller number of men might actually role play that out with an attractive partner if it should come up.
But it’s a vanishingly small number that would be interested in being dominated by your average People-of-Walmart type woman.
Humans are interested in sex, all kinds of sex, with attractive partners.