Actually, I was writing an I’m sorry when the website stopped responding and this email came in.
I felt that your use of eventual was used to make the OP look worse because he had said he immediately apologized. Your sarcastic reply/apology didn’t register to me as I was due no apology and it seemed quite sarcastic.
I’m saying sorry because maybe that is how you do it and meant it. And seriously, I’m not angry either.
Let me see if I have this right. You think that maggenpye purposely stated that the woman got her apology eventually rather than immediately because she wants to make the OP look worse knowing full well that the words are right there for all of us to see in the OP? Well thank God you came along to save us all from this Jedi Mind Trick. We would have never been able to read the words in the OP to see what was right if you hadn’t come along with your italics and bolding and definitions and stuff to shine your light of truth into this evil conspiracy against our poor OP. That makes sense in your brain rather than the idea that **maggenpye **was wrong on accident?
Also, do I think the apology was sincere and heartfelt? I think she was kind of doing a “my bad” by kind of riffing on the OP blaming his boorish behavior on interacting with his kid by doing a joke of “I wasn’t reading as closely as I could have been because I was bonding with my kid” kind of thing. I could be totally wrong about that, but that’s how I read it. Granted I don’t read things through my it’s-a-conspiracy-glasses so keep that in mind.
PS: I’m not angry either, in case that was your next move. I’m laughing at this.
ETA: It took forever for this to come through and post and now I see he has patched it up with maggenpye. All’s well that ends well but holy crap the board is slow in showing posts right now.
Dude, it was *meant *to be sarcastic. And the riffing on the OP thing, too. The weird thing is, people on the board have agreed with me, and I did bond with the kid, neither of which I had planned. But yeah! Sarcasm!
Now, everyone. How freaky is it that I’ve never used the phrase ‘and shit’ before, and within a handful of posts, **AClockworkMelon **shows up? Spooky Possums!
I’m gonna use it all the time now!
And shit.
I thought the OP was attempting to give an accurate and honest account of what actually happened. He mentioned he apologized immediately. Later on, it was characterized as he eventually apologized. There is a difference.
As I stated throughout, I thought he was wrong and the woman did a very good job of responding.
Accurate and honest? Like how just a couple of pages ago you were sayng he hadn’t catcalled those women - even though it’s in the thread title that he wrote?
That kind of accurate and honest? 
Then you had to recant when you realised that even the OP said he catcalled those women?
Mistakes happen, eh?
And shit (nah, getting bored with that already)
A page or so back, I said
I did later notice someone else said essentially the same thing as I.
Catcalling to my knowledge refers to shouting out insults or inappropriate remarks. Construction sites, sporting events etc. All the synonyms from Merriam-Webster - boo, Bronx cheer, hiss, hoot, jeer, raspberry, razz, snort and all from FreeDictionary - cry, outcry, shout, vociferation, yell, call. Nothing anywhere close to what he did.
I’m not recanting anything of the sort but if you want to cite a definition that fits what the OP did, I’ll be very happy to learn something new.
Yes, they do.
To paraphrase you.
Do you have a more accurate or honest sense of the actual [del]timeline[/del] undersatnding of what the OP did than the OP? How did you come to select that particular [del]word[/del] view of his actions?
This is fun.
But it’s after midnight, and I can’t say when I’ll get back to this. So cheery-bye.
**Colander **was right. You’re funny.
No they did not overreact. Once the words were heard they have a right to react any way they want to!
To all those who think she may have over reacted a tad, or that what he did wasn’t so bad really.
I would point out that one reason why women ‘over react’, is that when they were young, naive and trusting, some opportunistic man took advantage of that. By being inappropriate, groping, or just creeping the young woman into being afraid. Even though all she did was trust to ride an elevator with them, or accept a ride from a family friend, etc. Combine that with her parents trying to impress on her that she is a target and needs to always be careful, and she’s going to likely walk away from her encounter feeling she is partly to blame. Swearing to not be so trusting, to be more careful, more leery of all men. This is where women develop spidey sense. Then when male strangers, in broad daylight, make sexual overtures, even only verbally, yeah, it triggers a response the men may think over the top. They don’t want their daughters to have to experience such things.
You may feel differently, but I don’t think she over reacted. Nothing will change, ever, if women just meekly ignore this. Is it sometimes the right choice? Absolutely. In a well populated parking lot, mid day, father and son, might not be the time. In fact it may be the perfect time for her to finally have her say, after several times just ignoring it, in other less safe instances.
His being taken aback does not mean she overreacted. It means his words and actions were not taken as non aggressively, as he felt they ought to be. The solution is not, in my opinion, for her to suck it up, it’s for him to keep his juvenile remarks to himself. The Dad is demonstrating he is a throwback from another tome. Whereas she’s schooling him in how this bullshit don’t fly in this day and age.
This woman did nothing wrong, in my opinion, and deserves credit for trying to change the world for the next generation of young girls. Things don’t change otherwise, I believe.
Two good examples that have helped guys understand this in the past:
In the Shawshank Redemption, remember when Andy Dufresne first walked into the prison,a nd the prisoners were all ganaged up around the entrance cat-calling him? Were they complimenting him? Was it a compliment you woudl have appreciated?
Imagine you had no bank account. You had to carry your money with you, in cash, at all times. You were forced to carry it in a clear pocket attached to the front of your shirt. No matter how hard you tried to obscure it, people would always know that it was there, and that if it was taken from you you’d be homeless within the month. If you don’t hold your hand or a package up to obscure it, some folks claim that you want it to be taken away from you.
Now imagine you’re walking down the street, and 2 out of every ten people you pass make some sort of comment about the money. Maybe under their breath, or maybe a full-on catcall. Another three of the ten just keep glancing at it, as if it’s the only thing on their minds, even as they walk past you.
How secure does your money feel? How happy are you that folks are noticing it? How “complimeted” do you feel by the cat-calls and comments?
hth
TL;DR version: Society treats men and women differently and there are multiple levels to the only imbalance in power. Men are usually stronger, more aggressive, and have little to lose by startling us. It’s not hard to imagine why men think we should be flattered by unwanted attention:
[ul]
[li]Well, it wouldn’t scare me if women yelled dirty comments as I walked through the parking lot.[/li]
[li]I*’d *be flattered if a hot woman followed me to my car because I’m not afraid of women. [/li]
[li]I’d love it if a woman I barely knew sent me pics of her vagina, so I don’t understand why women are such bitches when I send photos of my dick. [/li]
[li]I wouldn’t feel threatened if a woman implied I would get more favorable treatment at work if I performed sexual favors for her. Hell, I’d love to earn a raise or a promotion that way! [/li]
[li]I’m physically larger and stronger than most women, so I have never in my life felt afraid of any woman or feared that one could hurt me, rape me, or kill me. [/li]
[li]I am tired of being a rejected nice guy, I’m going to start acting like a jerk to women. [/li]
[li]I was angry when that bitch ignored my compliment. [/li]
[li]I am angry that I don’t get to have as much sex as I desire.[/li]
[li]I am angry that the only thing standing between sexual gratification and me is women. [/li]
[li]I am angry that women are in control of how much sexual attention I receive. [/li]
[li]I make value judgments on women who reject me and refer to them as bitches, dykes or prudes. [/li]
[li]I make value judgments on women who appear to enjoy sex and and refer to them as whores or sluts. [/li]
[li]My friends and I know that if a woman doesn’t seem willing to have sex with us, we can get her drunk and she’ll probably give in, so I try to get women to drink so I can get laid. [/li]
[li]If I were female I’d have sex all the time! [/li]
[li]Of course, It doesn’t hurt my reputation to be called a slut. In fact, being a promiscuous a male garners favorable nicknames: stud, stallion, player, ladies’ man. I can be proud to have multiple partners whereas women with multiple partners are ostracized and punished, and in some cultures they are killed for losing their virginity. [/li]
[li]And my number of sexual partners has little to no bearing on my nickname or how acquaintances and family members perceive me. [/li]
[li]Also, sex isn’t a big deal because I can’t get pregnant, have an abortion, carry a pregnancy for nine months, suffer morning sickness, debilitating back pain, hair loss, loss of vision, loss of bladder control, labor pains, vaginal tearing, a C-section, or painful, swollen breasts and cracked nipples. I can’t die from pregnancy related complications or perish from blood loss during labor.[/li][/ul]
Worst you guys get for any of the above behavior is sexual frustration or rejection. Worst for us is ostracism, loss of a job, pregnancy, rape, abduction, verbal, physical, or sexual abuse or murder. Sometimes we’re a little touchy about our personal boundaries, but it’s not without good reason.
Besides all the TL;DR stuff, why do you do it? It sure isn’t for our benefit. We’re not likely to give a catcaller our phone number. Few of us want to involve ourselves romantically with a guy who stalks women in parking lots.
Sorry? The worst guys get for catcalling is sexual frustration or rejection but the worst women get for… catcalling… is rape? murder?
I don’t think you’ve known a lot of gay men. My gay male friends always seemed incredibly concerned by my “hotness” or lack thereof at any particular moment and were always giving me impromptu makeovers and hair, make-up and clothing advice.
TL;DR, huh? Can’t blame you, but figured I’d cover a range of possibilities just in case another poster calls a smartass comeback an “overreaction”. We can’t know you’re a great, respectful guy or a serial killer based on that brief,unprovoked confrontation. The media warns women that kidnappers, rapists, and serial killers prey on signs of vulnerability. For comments or actions which carry sexual overtones, we can’t tell if the catcaller is aggressive or just a clueless doofus. In the interest of self-preservation, women tend to assume we need to be on high alert.
Unwanted attention from random women rarely causes fear in the hearts of men. Women have good reasons to feel everything from annoyance to fear when confronted by strange men.
This. It’s okay for the father to make an ogling comment that turned out to be loud enough for the women to overhear, but it’s overreacting for the women to make a comment back? Puh-leese. Once he opens his mouth and says something about someone else’s appearance loud enough for them to overhear, then he’s opened himself up for a possible negative response.
That’s absolutely amazing that the woman in this instance is said by some to be overreacting. Wow. :smack:
I don’t have any problem with that statement.
On several occasions I’ve been in a situation where I’ve tried to politely and firmly say no to unwanted attention/advances/catcalls. I’ve also had some men get violently insistent that I should shut up and simply allow myself to be subjected to this behavior. I once told a guy in a bar that I was not interested in following him to another club. A couple minutes later, he got right up in my face and called me a fucking bitch because I didn’t just go with him. I was afraid to leave my group of friends and refused to go to my car by myself. In fact, I insisted on being escorted to my car by about four men because I was that afraid of the guy.
So yes, sometimes calling someone out for making you uncomfortable can result in escalation of threatening behavior, up to and including rape or murder. I should be able to give no for an acceptable answer without fearing the guy is going to beat the crap out of me or try to kill me just because I wasn’t interested in him. A woman can never tell when a “stand up for yourself” decision is going to turn into a “fear for your life” situation. Until it does.
This.
So many many times did I or one of my friends respond politely to a harmless remark or overture only to find that the next thing out of the guy’s mouth was rude, presumptious or totally insane.
The classic example
Him: You have beautiful eyes
Her: Thank you
Him: I’d like to keep them in a jar in my room
Ok, maybe that one is over the top but it really happened to a friend of mine. Of course, if she had responded rudely to the “you have beautiful eyes” comment outside observers would label her a bitch and she would probably have a frisson of guilt as well.
Usually the guy just takes a positive reaction as an assumption that you’ve agreed to be his girlfriend and gets nasty when the conversation doesn’t proceed as he imagined.
That said, I don’t think the OP’s actions were really horrible, although a little out of line. I work on lots of construction sites and I was a “hottie” back in the day…many times some guy would make a comment to me on the sidewalk and end up mortified and apologizing when they realized I was the “tech” they were supposed to meet with…I was never really offended by the original comments and I thought their abject embarrasment was hysterical.
I think we might be hearing from people who have never once felt fear because of such a confrontation, which is why the guys are so defensive. They’ve never been afraid of a woman’s unwanted attention. If you’ve never been in one of those escalated situations, never had a friend or acquaintance experience it, never been followed to your car, cursed, or stalked, then a passing rude comment seems like no big deal.
Yeah, stuff like the OP described is merely tiring, not panic-inducing. Unless the guy/s said the *exact same thing *in a menacing tone. Or said it while following you. Or was covered in prison tats, had wild tweaker eyes, was staggering drunk, in an otherwise empty parking lot, etc etc.
That’s definitely, *definitely *not me. I was just starting to wonder if I’m way too accepting of this kind of thing since I’ve been exposed to it so much (I used to go to grimy clubs a lot), since most women don’t seem to agree.
I was just complaining to everyone I know about men approaching women alone at night in deserted parking lots, because I just had that happen and have had it happen many times before (to ask for money, directions, hit on me, whatever). That really scares me. The situation here would not scare me.
I don’t know about objectification and overreaction, but my general policy is that if you feel perfectly free to tell me whatever dumb ass comment pops into your head as I walk by, then I am going to feel equally free to do the same. I’m not always witty, but I do have a mean streak, so what you are probably going to get is an assessment of how classy your behavior is and how proud your mother must be to have raised a son that catcalls women.
Now, I prefer to live in a world where people can go through their day to day life without a constant running commentary from strangers. But if you want to set a different set of rules, I’ll gladly play along.