I don’t even know for sure if he is Muslim, although I think in Saudi Arabia you have to at least act like you are.
it is still just a date right? there must be easier ways to practise your English.
+1
No kidding.
Oh, come on. Here I am trying to be all nice and reasonable and everything, and you try to prove that my original assessment that some people just can’t see beyond “ooh, scary Muslims!” was correct.
I think there might be just a little bit of difference between “a possible date with a Saudi guy in the US in 2012” and “married an Iraqi, had a child with him, and traveled home to the Middle East with him in 1984”.
It never hurts to check websites, though, as long as one tries to maintain one’s critical thinking abilities. Here’s one to start with.
http://politblogo.typepad.com/politblogo/2005/07/without_his_dau.html
Yeah, this was my first thought too. He’s newly-arrived in the land of barefaced harlots and he wants to find out if the stories are true. He needs helps “practicing his English” … really?
I’ve never even MET a Saudi Arabian man, so the odds are against it. I don’t date non-atheists, so it’s even less likely. I also don’t like the accent of people typical to that area. But I wouldn’t rule out a guy with Saudi Arabian *ethnicity *due solely to that or due to his skin color. My last boyfriend was half-and-half Mexican and Filipino, and I dug him. He had a General American accent though. Born and raised in Illinois, and talked like any given midwesterner. I like a few kinds of accents (General American, British, Australian, Irish) but not others (Southern American, New Jerseyan, Indian, Russian, etc). That probably makes me sound shallow. But it’s a preference. I just don’t think I could get used to a guy with a typical Middle Eastern accent.
So an atheist guy of Saudi Arabian ethnicity who was born and raised in America and talks with a British or General American accent? I could do that. But that combination seems almost impossibly unlikely.
Gaahhh. IRANIAN. Curse my fingers for typing ahead of my brain.
Are you unaware of how strongly culture influences our world view?
Oh ye of little faith. This is one of the “lets feel rightious” threads that pop up now and then.:rolleyes:
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I knew I’d get some responses like this, but that seems pretty ridiculous and unfair. There are probably about 0 American woman who wouldn’t have a single reservation about dating a man from Saudi Arabia, and recently. Most of the American men I know have picked up some unhealthy attitudes towards women, and it’s hardly controversial to say that American culture is a million times more enlightened in that area than Saudi culture.
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Oh my poor misunderstood and persecuted dear. Of course its unfair that people think wrongly of you. I mean all you did was ask whether it was okay to date the guy due to his nationality (not ethnicity as Saudi has many of those) and went on to rely on presumptions, conjectures and surmises as to the nature of his opinions and intentions and those of his family, despite the fact that there is nothing that he has done or said (per your own account) which indicates anything about his views and you don’t even know his family at all. And then you went on to make generalisations about a country you have never visisted and about which you know mostly through newspapers. How dare anyone say that the above does not make you seem a particularly desirable date.:p:dubious::rolleyes:
Because as per Islam, a muslim can’t marry a non-muslim. Non-muslim has got to convert to Islam to marry. In the end, its all about numbers you know.
How fitting that you feel so righteous, then! But I don’t think it is a righteous thread, particularly. Just people sharing opinions and making observations in response to an interesting question.
Truthseeker, your facts are wrong, not that the truth is any prettier. As a general matter (and I don’t pretend to speak from vast knowledge of every single sect; I’m sure you can find cases to counter what I’m saying) Muslim men can marry non-Muslim women, but not the reverse. The situation in Indonesia is even more restrictive than that, in some ways. Although it isn’t an Islam thing, it is a religion-in-general thing. Here, two citizens are not allowed to marry unless they are the same religion. Sham conversions to Islam by expats marrying Indonesians are quite accepted. Unfortunately, it’s not realistic for an Indonesian citizen who has “Islam” as their religion at birth to “convert out.”
Yes, you are right. Link
But even this pretty much ensures that Islam will not lose any of its adherents, but can add new converts. And future off-springs will also be Muslims by default.
If I were magically single, I wouldn’t even consider dating unless I already really liked the guy, and if I were ever considering an actual relationship, there would be terms. 1) I never set foot in Saudi Arabia, nor do our hypothetical children. Ever. I don’t care who’s dying. 2) If his family visits, I don’t spend one second pretending to be subservient. 3) I’m not changing religions, and we’re raising any kids secular.
I’m an Indian-American Hindu (South Indian) marrying an uber-liberal Hindu guy from a pretty broad minded family in North India* and do you know what the number one issue in my wedding is right now? Veiling. My future in-laws made my and my family’s life miserable until I agreed to cover my hair for the wedding although I am doing the absolute bare minimum and covering my head with a see through dupatta. Purdah, by the way, is not a Hindu requirement, and it’s especially not part of South Indian culture. I agreed to it only because it was making them so extremely unhappy and upset that their more conservative relatives would take the vapors over seeing my hair.
After I agreed to the veiling the additional requests for subservient style behavior started rolling in (everyone at the wedding can drink except for you!). At this point I just kind of ignore it and figure I’ll deal with it when we get there, but they would not bend on the veil.
Given that you seem to have zero familiarity with this culture, it’s probably not going to work out although I still don’t see any indication that this guy actually wants to ask you out. But leaving aside PC histrionics over anyone ever suggesting some cultural practices may be totally cray, my experience coming from a more conservative culture is as follows: even when you are with someone who is liberal from a liberal family, if they’re from a conservative culture, chances are that there will be conservative relatives to satisfy. And I find that to be especially true in Eastern cultures, where satisfying the family is of paramount importance. Because I am myself Indian and a liberal from a liberal family that is from a larger troop of conservative a-holes, I can sympathize with my SO grit my teeth and move on. But I strongly suspect that my in-laws’ suggestions that I touch my fiance’s feet to “show him respect” at the wedding would not go over well with the majority of my American girlfriends (again, not at all a ritual in my Indian culture).
*They haven’t kicked up a fuss about coming from different brahmin backgrounds, different parts of India, or us living together and I do actually like them.
No…not ever…and know and are friends with Saudi men and women. I know American women who married Saudi men when they were in the US . Everything was fine until they came back to Saudi then the woman HAS to cover and ask permission to travel. If there are children, well that is a different matter about leaving the country. Two of my western friends had to endure a second wife. One divorced him after 30 years and two daughters, the other one stuck with him until the youngest of four,two boys and two girls, finished school. By law the children have to go to the Saudi government schools. Which are segregated and taught in Arabic…difficult for kids if not spoken from the beginning. This is not every “mixed” marriage I’m sure, however my Saudi neighbor (woman) told me even if the man marries another Arab, say a Qatari, or Kuwait, doesn’t work out…it’s a tribal thing.
So fucking what? A thin excuse to socialize with women, why no american man has ever stooped to that! Again are there any men anywhere in the world who aren’t hoping for sex in dating? Ok then.
I don’t see any problem with saying you just don’t want to date Saudi Arabian expats, you don’t want to deal with potential cultural conflicts etc Cool and that doesn’t make you a racist or bigoted anymore than saying you’re just not attracted to asian guys or whatever.
What is ridiculous is creating a personality profile on this guy based on his nationality, and creating scenarios of how possible futures will go. You don’t know period.
Don’t date him yet. Just befriend him.
Keep telling him you’re not what he may imagine Western Women all are. You go slowly and get to know any new man, before actually dating him.
Meet him for coffee a few times. Get more of his story. Ask about his sisters. What do they do? During these conversations, be very, very honest. Tell him you have reservations because the cultures are so different in regards to the treatment of women. How does he feel about women not driving? About women working outside the home? His sister marrying a foreigner? A non Muslim? How accepting would his family be if she chose to? Has he ever seen a man hit a woman? How did he feel about it? What did he do?
Challenging him, even mildly, may reveal to you, what you’re looking for.
If he’s really only interested in sowing some American oats, he will just shine you on, concerning all your questions. It will be pretty clear, I suspect. He may prove to be very polished, for a guy needing to ‘practice his English’.
In my experience with muslim culture, I found that, once off the island, they can be more lax morally. Hence all the brothels along the Thai Malay border. Or when you fly through any Asian airport, even early in the morning, the bars are all packed out with Arabs in long white robes with beers in their hands. For some, but not all, once off the island, things change, it’s time to let loose a little, or a lot!
Go slow, be honest with your reservations and see what he says. Go from there. Good luck!
I think you are, yes. As you have noted, it’s not that the guy is a Muslim, nor even that he may or may not be a Wahabi Muslim; but his cultural matrix is Wahabi, and that is an extremely conservative (Western women would probably say “repressive”) variety of Islam. (But only one of many schools of Islam, of course.)
It’s as if the OP were contemplating getting involved with a man raised Jehovah’s Witness - he may have abandoned the faith of his childhood, but he’s most likely not going to know the words to “Silent Night”.
Nevertheless, I agree with the posters who say “A date or two? Why not?”. If she decides to take it further, she can then have this discussion.
Clearly we have caught on to the foreigner’s plot to defile our women by being friendly and gregarious while asking them on dates!
The practicing his English thing is at least partially a ruse, but that doesn’t mean he really just thinks I’m a slut. Men come up with excuses to talk to women all the time. If I was a man (or a woman who asked men out) I’d do the same thing.
You’re kind of a drama llama, aren’t you? “I think you’re being unfair” is not exactly the same thing as, “OMG you’re persecuting me!”
And yeah, I’m no Saudi Arabia expert, but it is objectively true that this man has been raised in a society where women are forced to be covered from head to toe every time they leave the house, the times they *are *even allowed to leave the house, which can be very restricted. It’s also true that adult women have to have a male guardian make many of their decisions for them. This guy could very well be extremely progressive in that context, but he’d probably have to be like pathologically progressive in that context for us to be compatible.
Probably not. I said I’d see him tonight though, so we’ll see how it goes.
I’m pretty sure he does. Why else would he be so interested in practicing English with me specifically, a random stranger? A lot of people speak English.
Well…that would be a lie. It would be a good idea, but I can’t say I always do it.
Good questions to ask