Large woman = "real woman" - huh?

In My Humble Opinion
101

Funnily enough, I do. I receive interest from fat and fit women alike.

What happens is that, unlike most guys, I don’t lavish undue praise on women. I tend to come across as pretty honest with my opinions and criticisms. This evokes two kinds of responses: The catty bitch responses (an example of which you just exhibited) or a sort of impressed attraction, probably motivated by thoughts along the lines of “if he can be so direct and honest about my shortcomings, he must be dating so many other, hotter girls” which becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

102

Oh, you poor dear child. Good luck.

103

Oh, I’m so impressed by you, Ah do believe Ah shall swoon.

104

You can argue all you want about how women are all trying to live up to unrealistic body images and how you can be fit and overweight, its all genetic, I can’t avoid it, blah, blah, blah. Some of that is true, but its mostly rubbish in my book. And its not just women. The same goes for men. The truth is that we are fatter than our parents were, Type II diabetes is exploding in this country (especially among children) and a much higher percentage of children are overweight now than they were a generation ago. Thats not genetics. Genetics don’t change that much in one generation. Its society. Its a society that on the one hand idealizes the thin (yet, truthfully, in some cases, not necessarily healthy) and on the other hand promotes sloth and gluttony. Everyone is to blame for this problem, from the schools peddling soft drinks to our kids to the advertisers preying on the youth market to get “families” to buy fast food to the poorly planned cities that promote the use of cars for every little task we attend to in our daily lives. Its the fault of the parents that allow their kids to sit and watch TV and play video games all day. Its the fault of the government for cutting school funding and, in the process in many cases, butting back on gym class. Its the fault of the schools for making “physical education” anything but that phrase. Its the fault of the American public for believing that no matter what ailment we have, no matter how big or small, some drug should fix it with minimal “discomfort” to us and our soft lifestyles. And finally its the fault of the fast food industry, and its patrons, for substituting quantity of food for quality of food in the country by making supersized meals the biggest, best “value” out there.

        Like most issues, both extremes have this wrong.  Thin is not necessarily healthy.  What they should promote in ads are people like the US women's soccer team or the Olympic swim team or such.  On the other hand, too many women and women's groups try to argue that fat is OK if you control it or as long as you are "comfortable" with yourself.   I can't imagine a bigger disservice to the health of American women than that line of reasoning.  "You'll never look as good as a supermodel, so just stop trying at all."  It seems very defeatist to me.  And I don't ignore the male side of this either.  Men are all too often given a free pass on this issue.  A beer belly on a man is joked about and used as the basis for jokes on sitcoms.  Its not a joke when they have their first heart attack.

       If you want to be healthy, ignore your weight.  Ignore your body mass index.  Find out your precentage body fat and work on lowering it with a better diet and more exercise.  This won't make you look like a supermodel
105

I don’t know if that’s a matter of preception or location. When I lived in southern MA while was younger and somewhat thinner (and still wore jeans), I had the opposite problem. None of the stores in my area carried jeans in my size. None of them. They all started with size 8, and if you needed a smaller size, you couldn’t get them without leaving the area; there were plenty of jeans in the 14-22W range however (given I worked in the clothing department of a store myself, I think my view of things was pretty accurate, since I had to take note of the sizes of things sold.) The difference, though, is that larger women are allowed to complain about not finding clothes in their sizes, but god forbid if you dare express complaint that all the clothes are too big for you… :rolleyes:

106

Maybe you should find a man and ask him. You sound more like a teenager.

107

good post IUHomer.

myself, i was obese as a kid. to be completely truthful if i was born in USA that would not bother me nearly as much, but back in Ukraine i was the ONLY obese boy in my grade school. and as you know children are not very sensitive to the fact that people can be different so they would regularly beat the shit out of me for being fat :slight_smile:

my parents were bothered by my weight, but didn’t really do anything about it. at age 12 i have become aware of what a calorie is, and i attempted my first diet. it wan’t very scientific i was basically starving myself (didnt know any better) and my parents were trying to stop me. the diet was a success. i only managed to keep it up for 2 weeks but i lost a bunch of pounds ( well kilograms ).

since that time, for a long time it was like a roller coaster ride i was dieting weight off and gaining it back etc … my parents were always decidedly against whatever i was doing. when i was dieting they were trying to make me eat, and when i was not dieting they were trying to get me to stop eating :slight_smile:

thats ok, my parents dont have no fucking clue about dieting or fitness. so i just ignore everything they say. they won’t give it a rest though. after 10 years, still as “supportive” as they always were NOT :slight_smile:

the only support i ever had was from people calling me fat, and teasing me about it. and i am grateful to them, cuz without them i would never get my shit together.

eventually i came to the realization that i can never, ever come off of a diet. i will have to spend all of my life dieting because i gain fat EXPLOSIVELY.

here’s my picture, taken June 28 in my room:

http://forum.avantlabs.com/uploads/post-6-1056849959.jpg

i am just about as unsatisfied with my body as i ever was. and its pretty safe to say i will never be satisfied with the results my genetics are capable of. but that is totally irrelevant. i owe it to myself to look the best i can, no matter how bad or good that is.

:slight_smile:

108

But you realize that good and bad are subjective measures, right? What looks best to you might not be what some others prefer, and there’s nothing wrong with that?

109

Aesthetic good and bad are statistical measures. A reasonable person wants to look good to the highest number / percentage of people, or specifically, to the highest number / percentage of people in his / her target demographic, such demographic usually being defined by one’s sexual orientation, along with possibly other factors.

In other words, if most guys hate fat women (they do) it’s not good to be a fat woman.

“Anyone who doesn’t like the way I look isn’t worth my attention.” is the very height of self-delusion. And demonstrably untrue. The most desirable people have the highest standards.

110

meaning yourself, of course.

THAT is the height of self-delusion, my friend.

111

you mentioned the demand part. certainly one wants to offer something which is in high demand. but there is also the issue of supply. one also wishes to offer something which is in short supply, so that those in need have nowhere else to turn :slight_smile:

being fit happens to be both in high demand and short supply :slight_smile:

112

Can we tease you until you quit acting like a jerk?

113

Well, vasyachkin, after having seen your picture, I can truthfully say:

I probably wouldn’t be terribly attracted to you. But that’s my preference. I don’t generally go for bodybuilders/very muscular men.

That’s not a slam on you; I’m sure tons of girls find that attractive. I know a few who’d like it. The girls I hang out with are more attracted to tall skinny guys like I am, but that doesn’t mean we can’t appreciate the aesthetics of bodybuilders.

I dated a very muscular guy once and we were nuts about each other, so it’s not like I’m completely set against them like you are against “fat” women.

114

What’s really a crack up is that there are a lot of men who actually PREFER “fluffier” (their word for chubby girls) women. I didn’t follow up on it, but I remember a similar debate in my “romance advice” group.

This one guy (whom trans reminds me of) kept arguing "the VAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAST majority of men like skinny women and hate fat women (and that’s how he put it every time too, it was so funny, and like vasy and trans, every post he made was almost exactly the same, as if by repitition alone he could change his fellow guys’ opinions!!).

He even had his own board called something like “Men who hate fat chicks”.

Anyway, every other man in the group told him he was flat out wrong. And a few of them even did WebFerret searches (like google, only it’s a program that entails using 20 or so search engines all at once) and they came up with more online boards and groups dedicated to “fat chicks” BY THE MEN THAT LOVE THEM, that for those of skinny chicks.

Recall, one of the men I dated (from LA, land of the shallow and plastic), told me that I was, at a size 10, “too small” to really be considered “fluffy”.

He got over my “too smallness” and we dated (including me flying to his home and meeting him for a few long vacations). But based on what he said, and some of the other guys I dated and/or chatted with from the lower 48, it’s pretty common.

Guys like vas and trans are in the minority, not vice versa.

The problem is that they keep ranting and raving about how “OH yes it IS attractive to be slim and fit”.

LOL, no one’s arguing about the obvious beauty of Halle and her ilk, what WE’RE all saying is that just because YOU find that and ONLY that attractive doesn’t mean that all men agree with you, or even most for that matter.

And don’t ARGUE with us, because you KNOW it’s true (sticking out tongue in fun smilie).

But seriously, just look at the men in this thread alone. You and vasy are the “odd men out”. Not the other way around.

115

I dunno. I don’t go around saying “if you’re this body type, then you’re not attractive at all” - that’s just rude, for a start. I might think it, but I certainly don’t claim any superiority in my tastes in girls (except that their my own, of course). I guess I don’t really differentiate between “not attractive” and “not what I consider attractive.” Which sounds really nasty, but, unlike transitionality (could it be a reference t the state of his membership), I don’t presume to speak to the wider population. Coupledom seems fairly widespread amongst the human population, so most people must be attractive to someone. I can certainly consider someone not attractive, but that doesn’t mean that I expect that no-one else but freaks will find them attractive.

I do. But I don’t think Courtney Cox was at all attractive when she went on her big thin-trip. She looked like skin stretched over a skeleton. Ms Flockhart just looks like a skinny woman to me.

And I’ll repost my question that hasn’t been answered yet.

If this is so, why do the stores selling these clothes stay in business?

116

I think the problem here is semantic. Instead of saying “can’t” perhaps she should have said “shouldn’t”. There are a lot of clothes that shouldn’t be worn by many people who buy them because they’re unflattering to their figures, but that doesn’t stop people who don’t own mirrors from buying the clothes and wearing them.

I could be off base and she really did mean “can’t” as “not capable of” though.

117

Just to put into some prespective (TMI by the way, you were warned) I’m a 22 year old guy and have much different perceptions of what ‘fat’ is.

First of all, actual weight has nothing to do with what I find attractive. Its just a number, demonstrating the some people are more strongly affected by the earth’s gravity. Gravity, schmavity…it doesn’t have anything to do with what I like. Anyway, I look at porn on the internet. I often go to indexes which categorize free picture gallieries. Something I’m surprised at is that what they categorize under ‘fat’ or ‘BBW’ in porn, to me, isn’t really that fat at all. In fact, I think a lot of those women are knockouts. Of course, there are many gallieries of women who are at various levels of obesity. But several gallieries feature women who I think are my ‘ideal’- they have curves, they’re not so think their ribs are visible, all their body parts are proportional (so I can be looking at pictures of women of different heights/weights, and find ALL of them attractive).

Transitionality, don’t be confused with someone who is comfortable about the way they look with someone who is in denial with themselves- they are two of the opposite spectrums of people. Try to look within yourself, your own feelings of ‘unworthiness’ towards certain women- I really think that deep down you are insecure about your own apperance to an extent, and you are projecting this insecurity on other people. People can be shallow at times, but give the human race a little more credit!

118

Putting up a message board devoted to men who like conventionally attractive women would be like putting up a message board devoted to men who have noses. It is such a common trait that it doesn’t qualify as a unifier. Men simply assume it of one another, usually pretty accurately as it turns out.

Being attracted to fat women, on the other hand, is such a fringe trait that the only way proponents of this trait can find one another is by way of internet-based messageboards.

119

In my Social Psych class, I learned that the true indicator of a woman’s desirability in bygone days was her waist/hip ratio (under 1 and preferably about .7 to .8) This was why corsets were so popular for hundreds of years. Of course, being slim-hipped myself, I’m far from the ideal (makes buying skirts and pants a pain).

Oh, btw, I consider myself a real woman, and I’m between a 4 and a 6. I was a real teenage girl at 13 when I wore a 0 and had the worst time finding clothes. Whoever had the bright idea to make jeans start at size 1 but dressier pants at 3, I would so like to thank you–not :rolleyes: (I went to private school with a dress code)

Larry Mudd, women’s clothes at the gap run big too–I have a size 2 skirt from there that fits perfectly.

120

coughcoughbullsh**cough!!!

Just kidding!! :smiley: But it brings to mind my neverending hunt for bluejeans.

For a while the Gap had this great style called “reverse fit”. And those were jeans that fit (and OH SIGH the days) fit WELL, those of us who are unlucky enough to be “monroe-esque”.

See, my waist is a good 10-12 inches (depending on whether I’ve been a good girl and hitting the gym) smaller than my hips.

Which meant that in this world of jeans built for “willowy” girls, that if I bought jeans to fit my butt, that there’d be this HUGE butt revealing gap at the waist, or I’d have to cinch the waist in with a belt, making the waist all bunchy and ruining the nice look of the jeans.

Or, I’d have to buy them so tight in the tummy and hips that I’d nearly keel over from lack of oxygen, JUST to have them come close to fitting my waist.

In my experience, most women’s clothing is designed for those with no hips or waists.

It used to be true that even sizes were the “misses” sizes, those with much smaller waists than hips, and the odd sizes were the “junior” or slim to no hipped girls sizes.

Nowadays, all clothing seems to be geared toward the slim or no-hipped women.