Last and first time the sun set on the British Empire?

Factual Questions
1

As in the saying “The Sun never sets on the British Empire”.

When did the British Empire first reach that point where there were always territories under the Sun? What was the territory acquired then?

When did they lose enough territories that this stopped being true? What was the territory lost?

Is there any current “empire” where the Sun never sets? What do you need for that? Just two pieces at opposite sides of the world?

Does the sun set on the US if you include all the territories (Guam et al)?

ETA: Did any empire before the British reach the extension where the Sun never set on it? Did the former Soviet Russia reach that point?

2

I would hazard a guess that the British Empire reached that state upon the formation of the East India Company.

The Spanish did beat the British to that claim, though. See this Wikipedia article.

3

Interesting. I didn’t realize the phrase was appropriated from the Spanish Empire.

4

Speaking symbolically and poetically, I’d imagine the sun finally set on the British Empire in 1997, with the return of Hong Kong to China.

5

Has it actually set yet? There’s Britain itself, an enclave on Cyprus, Diego Garcia, the Falklands, Bermuda, and the Pitcairn Islands amongst others. My geography’s not that hot, but are those good enough to satisfy the OP’s conditions? See this Wiki article.

6

Pitcairn Island is at 128° 18" West, 24° 21" South
Diego Garcia is at 72° 24" East, 7° 18" South

That’s a longitudinal offset of 128° – a little over 1/3 the Earth’s circumference. So it looks like there’s sunrise in Diego before sunset in Pitcairn.

Here’s a question, though: Is the term “British Empire” even used anymore?

7

Until relatively recently, I didn’t even know that this sentence had been used in reference to the British Empire. In France I always heard or read it in reference to Spain. Even though I don’t know for sure about other European countries, I wouldn’t be surprised if the former use was known only in the UK and its former colonies.

8

I’m not so sure about that, I would be inclined to say it was on the demise of the East India Company - a reaction to the Indian Mutiny.

The East India Company was a bit like Haliburton run wild, and the UK had very little domestic, let alone overseas administration until the 1860s. My understanding is that prior to then the UK was very interested in Naval bases, but not much interested in colonies or overseas territories.

‘This Sceptred Isle’ a BBC Radio production of the history of the UK loosely based on Churchill’s writings, is quite interesting on the subject - apart from Anna Massey’s voice being pleasantly soporific.

9

Thomas Pakenham’s excellent The Scramble for Africa (probably the best overview of that period in Africa, IMHO) goes into great detail about how Britain (and France, and Germany, and later Belgium) found themselves with a Colonial Empire in Africa.

As much of an ardent Colonialist and Imperialist as I am, the best I’ve been able to come up with as to why it happened is this:

It Seemed Like A Good Idea At The Time.

The idea at first (as FRDE says) was simply to establish trading posts (on places like the Oil River in Nigeria) and exchange shiny baubles, cloth, and guns with the natives for things like palm oil, ivory, rubber, and other things not readily available in Europe at the time- but once the Scramble For Africa kicked off it was all downhill from there, as far as the Africans were concerned, at any rate. Basically, Britain and France were, by the 1880s or so interested (in relation to Africa) in the Three Cs: Commerce, Christianity, and Civilisation (Which included the eradication of the Slave Trade). And if the Natives had a problem with that, well, as Hilaire Belloc said: “We have got the Maxim Gun/And They Have Not”

Overseas Military Adventures were expensive- the Anglo-Zulu War cost some unfathomable sum of money and the Sudanese Campaign was even more expensive (and embarrassing for much of it). The Boer War cost the Crown an ungodly sum of money as well, and that’s without getting into the lives lost in all the conflicts.

King Leopold II really kicked off the scramble for Africa when he saw the [del]loot[/del] commercial potential of the geographic area now referred to as The Congo; the irony is that even though we think of Colonialism and Imperialism as largely being “British”, the fact of the matter was that King Leopold started it all (Il faut á la Belgique une colonie; “Belgium Must Have A Colony!”) and without his (ultimately successful) efforts to bring most of Central Africa under his control, the other Major Powers (England, France, and later Germany) would have been quite content to confine their activities to trading posts, small protectorates, naval bases, and trade “understandings” (sometimes arrived at via gunboat diplomacy) with local chiefs.

FWIW, I agree the British Empire ended in 1997 when Hong Kong was handed back; the remaning [del]colonies[/del] Overseas Territories are comparatively insignificant places like Gibraltar, Pitcairn Island, Tristan Da Cunha, St. Helena, and the (uninhabited because the previous tenants were forcibly removed) British Indian Ocean Territory. You’ve also got Gibraltar and a few islands in the Caribbean, Bermuda, and the Falkland Islands. Nothing that could be considered an “Empire”, at any rate.

Have a read of Simon Winchester’s Outposts: Journeys to the Surviving Relics of the British Empire for some idea of what the remaining parts of the British Empire are like nowadays (or about 10 years ago, when the book was last updated). Interesting stuff. King Leopold’s Ghost by Adam Hochschild also comes highly recommended and is very readable as well, FWIW.

10

Yes, just in one way that I know of, although there have been recurring proposals to drop it: Order of the British Empire - Wikipedia

What used to be called the British Empire is nowadays referred to as the British Commonwealth, or just the Commonwealth.

11

And I think that these days you don’t even need to be a former British territory to be a member of the Commonwealth.

12

Mozambique, for example.

13

As people have said it survives in the names of awards etc. I suppose the Empire itself ceased to exist when George VI ceased being Emperor of India in 1947.

14

Was the expression always intended just as a literal geographical truth? As in the empire being so widespread around the Earth that there was always some point that was in daylight?

I ask because when I first heard the expression, I always thought it was also expressing a more metaphorical idea. That the “sun never set” on the British Empire in the sense that it would exist forever. Was this supposed to be a second meaning of the expression or is it something that I just invented in my mind?

Obviously neither interpretation turned out to be true.

15

Yes, except for the period in summer when the northern portion of Alaska is continually in daylight. As noted in another recent thread, the longitudinal distance between Guam and the US Virgin Islands is less than 180 degrees.

16

Okay, so we’ve established that the sun has actually yet to set on the British empire. That leave the question, when was this first true?

17

I would guess a key moment would be James Cook’s voyages, in which he claimed Australia and New Zealand as British territories in the 1760s or 70s. Taken together with the American colonies, this arrangement may be enough to meet the requirement.

18

I thought the sun never set on the Spanish Empire and that the sun never set on the British Empire without asking permission first.

19

Agreed, although I would defer the moment of sovereignty over any part of Australia until 1788, when Britain actually established a colony there. Australia and Britain are almost antipodal, so they cover most of the day by themselves; the small remaining gap is more than plugged by Canada and the Caribbean islands.

Before 1788, even if you count Rupert’s Land and India as part of the British Empire, they’d fall a little short–especially in winter, because I don’t think they owned anything in the Southern hemisphere.

20

I’m going to say this then run for cover…

Technically… If you consider the fact that embassies are the territory of the…

I’m going to leave quickly before finishing that sentence.