Last SW Episode I thread before Episode II

I finally got around to watching Star Wars: Episode I, scant moths before Episode II is scheduled for release (I never intended to, but the video store had a $1 sci-fi special, and I couldn’t pass it up). Much has already been said, of course, but I hope at least some of you will appreciate a different perspective.

I don’t feel like doing a full review, so I’m just going to respond to what’s already been said:

  • Some critics called this the “Phantom Movie”. While I agree that it isn’t up to Lucasfilm’s usual standards…well, many moviegoers were absolutely thrilled with it, and I can see why. The visuals are stunning, there are some really good performances, and overall, this seems a…what’s the word…grander movie than the original trilogy. And the story didn’t seem “childish” at all; on the contrary, it’s the most complex tale I’ve seen in SW outside of the “non-canon” comics.

  • Still, one sticking point remains valid…this is a story that didn’t need to be told at all, or at least should have been done with quickly so we could get to the real story, i.e. the decent of Anakin Skywalker to evil. There’s absolutely nothing here, other than a few dubious pronouncements by the Jedi Council, that this unassuming (and thorougly sweet and good) boy will someday become a dreaded Sith Lord. Likewise, Obi-Wan Kenobi, who has a pretty pivotal role in the “future” trilogy, has almost nothing to do here except for the obligatory fight scenes. And while Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul would both make for intriguing supporting players in future movies…alas, we’ll never see them again. What we’re left with is a bunch of politics, a few forgettable bit players, and a boy who’s a long, long way from having any signifigance in the grand scheme of SW.

  • Re. Jar Jar Binks. First off, let me make it clear that I have no qualms about him being here. He’s comic relief. He’s a goofball. His purpose in life is to be funny and lighten the mood. I can accept that. Unfortunately, because his role is so limited, this all but guarantees that he’ll eventually just fade out of the picture (if he’s in Episode II at all)…much like the Trade Federation, Nute Gunray, heck, maybe even Darth Sidious himself. There’s nothing wrong with a funny sidekick, but why not create one with staying power instead of a one-dimensional bumbling clown?

  • I heard that Jake Lloyd was a terrible actor, but was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because, well, c’mon, he’s just a kid. After seeing his entire performance, however, I’m not convinced that his dialogue was the kind even a 10-year-old would have trouble with. Some of it sounds just plain forced (“Yippeeee!”). The other kids didn’t sound very convincing, either, but at least they had only one or two lines. No such luxury for Anakin, who is, after all, one of the pivotal characters in this drama, and at times he’s downright painful to listen to. (Out of <i>hundreds</i> of applicants, this was the best George Lucas could come up with?)

  • The plot never made a whole lot of sense (and yes, I’m still wondering what the Trade Federation wanted Naboo for in the first place). In fact, a <i>lot</i> of it was designed with the merchandising angle in mind. No better example than the podrace, which, as everyone knows, was put in solely so they could create a video game…several video games, actually…out of it. (Scaled-down, of course; if Star Wars: Racer was run at the same speed as the actual race in Episode I, most gamers would be lucky to last fifteen seconds. <i>We’re</i> not the ones with Jedi reflexes.) Need I even mention the twin-bladed lightsaber and the shiny new ships? There’s been a lot of crass commercialism surrounding the original trilogy, but at least those movies weren’t designed with merchandising in mind.

  • The movie gets <i>incredibly</I> cheesy at the end. As if Jar Jar “lucking out” and taking out at least a score of enemy robots with his blundering wasn’t bad enough, we also get to see Anakin launch a ship he’s never piloted before and infiltrate the Federation flagship <i>by pure, dumb luck</i>. It was at this point, IMHO, where even the movie’s tenuous portrayal of reality was blown to bits. It might have actually been more plausible if Jar Jar went berserk and smashed the robots apart with his bare hands (he may be goofy, but he’s definitely not a wimp) and Anakin turned out to be a <i>really</i> fast learner and found the flagship’s weak spot thanks to the power of the force. You know, like his future son did? Hey, they’re already ripping off Return of the Jedi with the big explosion, why not go the whole nine?

  • Why is it that the two most compelling characters had to die? Liam Neeson gave one of the best performances of the entire film, and I’d much rather watch a wise but somewhat maverick Jedi than a boring greedbag Trade Federation alien or a monotonal queen any day. And what can be said about Darth Maul other than that he’s a hell of a warrior, but never even got a chance to do anything evil? (The point about beating a Jedi master in a fair fight…if not a fight stacked <i>agaisnt</i> him…not being evil is a good one.) I can accept the fact that it was either Maul or Obi-Wan, and I can accept that Maul was just an apprentice, he got cocky for a moment, and it cost him…but it’s still a bummer.

  • Many have castigated the portrayals of Jar Jar Binks (“black actor!”) and Watto (“hooked nose!”) as racist. To be honest…I don’t see it. Jar Jar is a silly goofball, but there was nothing even remotely specific to, er, the African race. Watto is a sleazy, money-grubbing hustler, one of many on Tatooine; I saw no evidence that he worships anything other than the almighty…whatever the currency is on Tatooine.

  • I give this movie 3/6…which is less than the 4/6 I gave to each of the original trilogy. It’s a worthy successor, but the ending was just too cheesy and silly and ridiculous.

Couple nitpicky notes…

  • Shortly after the escape from Tatooine, Qui-Gon comments that the stranger he just clashed with was “skilled in the Jedi arts”. He found that out from a 20-second scuffle? All he knows at that point is that Maul is really good with a lightsaber, not necessarily versed in any other Jedi proficiency. (He didn’t even do a Force pull until the climactic 2-on-1 duel.)

  • The whole deal with the podrace vis a vis getting the engine the queen’s ship required confused the hell out of me. Okay, so Watto’s willing to split whatever Anakin wins 50-50 as long as Qui-Gon ponies up the ship for the entrance fee. But that leaves him without a ship <i>or</i> an engine…no way in hell he was going for that. So he counterproposes that Watto pay the entrance fee, and if Anakin wins, he gets all the prize money minus the cost of the new engine. And if Anakins loses, of course, Watto keeps the ship.

All well and good; stacked in Watto’s favor, perhaps, but that’s only to be expected. Except…do they need the entire ship as the cost of the entry fee? If not, a much more logical solution would be for Qui-Gon to offer the ship as collateral, which Watto would have if Anakin finished out of the money, and let Watto deduct the entry fee <i>and</i> the cost of the new engine (plus whatever Anakin’s services demanded), so at least Qui-Gon has something left over. And if the race was big enough that the whole ship had to be used for the entry fee, the heck with a new engine, Qui-Gon should just follow Watto’s original suggestion and buy an entirely new ship with the sure-to-be-huge winnings (minus the fee for Annie’s services, of coruse).

And exactly when, and how, was the newly-won engine installed? It’s still in Watto’s shop when Qui-gon speaks to him after the race, and it’s installed and ready to run while Qui-Gon and Anakin are returning to the ship (which is still well outside the city limits). There has to be an explanation…Lucas wouldn’t just leave a gaping plot hole, would he? :wink:

**

Such as?

This has been discussed here and in many other places ad naseum. The first trilogy was indeed created with the merchandising in mind. Lucas has said so himself.
Also, the look of the Naboo ships and other ships were clean and gleaming to represent that things are good in the Star Wars universe (specifically, the Republic). The look in the later movies (original trilogy) is darker and more utilatarian to represent the Star Wars universe of that time (the Empire).

It only seems complex if you ignore the glaring plot holes and convoluted storytelling. Why did they have the podrace? Because they were stuck on Tatooine. Why? Their engine was destroyed. Why couldn’t they buy one? Their money was no good there. Why couldn’t they call for help? Umm… Because?

Ridiculous. Why did they return to Naboo? Well, because Queen Amidala said so. No other explanation was given.

**

I’d agree if Jar Jar was actually funny. Compare to Threepio or Chewbacca. Genuine comic relief integrated into interesting characters. The other problem is this: It wasn’t a particularly dark movie. Therefore, you don’t need comic relief. Relief implies a contrast.

**

No kidding. Like many people, I saw Sixth Sense shortly after, and thought, “Why, oh why, didn’t Lucas cast this kid?” Basically, though, it was bad dialogue, done even more poorly.

**

Sure they were. Especially Jedi. Why else would Ewoks be introduced, along with dozen of new spaceships? Of course, good merchandising is okay when accompanied by good storytelling.

**

You know, this was the only part of Jar Jars that I enjoyed. Pure physical comedy is entertaining to me.

**

This, OTOH, was ridiculous.

**

Just wait.

**

Well, that way you actually mourn their loss, instead of sighing in relief as the hero dies. Of course, it helps to have a competent actor step up and take their place…

**

Agree. The fact that Jar Jar was played by an African American, and the fact the Samuel L. Jackson (a vocal civil rights proponent) was involved, leads me to not read too much into it.

**

I suppose he could sense it. “The Force is strong with this one.”
Also, lightsabers are not easily made or wielded by those untrained in the arts.

**

Plot holes? They’ll be taken care of in the inevitable special edition. :slight_smile:

Little in the film holds up under scrutiny. For one thing, most of Obi-Wan’s lines in the original trilogy turn out to be fibs. For another, what the heck are midichlorians? Where did this come from?

I know it would have been difficult to live up to fan’s expectation after all this time, but it can be done. Observe Lord of the Rings.

Justin

I agree about Jar Jar-I thought he was adorable! I have a little Jar Jar toy I got at Pizza Hutt. I think with him, it was more a confidence problem than anything else.

And hey, the soundtrack was excellent. Duel of the Fates is one of Williams’s best. The effects were exquisite-the underwater city of the Gungans was soooo beautiful-all those gorgeous floating bubbles of light!
And the costumes. Love love love the costumes. Those long flowing embroidered robes Amidala wore…sigh I would kill for the blueish kimono with the silver embroidery.

Apologize for screwing up the VB codes. Dang, why do some have to use straight brackes and others have to use arrow brackets? Why isn’t this standardized??

Good performances? Hmm…as stated before, I liked Liam Neeson as Qui-Gon Jinn; he came across as everything a Jedi Master should be (maverick tendencies aside, of course). Watto’s actor had the part perfectly. Ewan McGregor, well, he did the best with what he had. Yoda was spot-on, and, despite the qualms of many, Samuel L. Jackson was seamless as Mace Windu. Didn’t really care for Amidala.

The reason Amidala and company never radioed for help was because the Trade Federation could trace the signal. Remember, they couldn’t even respond to their own governor because secrecy was so critical. That’s why it took Darth Maul to root 'em out.

The reason she returns is…uh…well, I’ll quote her: “The Senate is your arena. Naboo is mine.” In short, time was of the essence, the Senate sure as heck wasn’t going to resolve the issue before everything she held dear was lost, and dammit, she had to do something! This, actually, I thought was one of the most realistic parts of the movie. Sometimes you can’t rely on the bigwigs in the fancy skyboxes; sometimes you just gotta take matters into your own hands.

Won’t argue the merchandise issue in original trilogy; just call what I see and have absolutely no desire to crack skulls over this.

“Midichlorians” was just stupid. I don’t understand why Lucas would want to explain this in the first place, but at least something plausible. As for the supposed “virgin birth”…the way I see it, he’s just trying to keep this as open-ended as possible. Note that Shmi’s explanation is about as sketchy as she could’ve made it. I see a potential major twist in the future.

I still don’t understand why Watto didn’t bring Amidala’s ship to his shop. Considering that that’s what he was standing to win, I’d think that he’d want to have it available for inspection. Not to mention that having it there would make it a lot easier to install the new engine (dammit, that’s the one thing I just can’t get past…).

I totally agree with your point about “this is a story that didn’t need to be told at all, or at least should have been done with quickly so we could get to the real story”.

From what I’ve read about Episode #2, there is going to have to be a lot of ground covered in #3 before we get to the original Star Wars.

What happens to Artoo, who was very close to Anakin and Obi-Wan? Threepio, who was built by Anakin on Tatooine? You cannot reconcile it with the two in ANH. My guess is that Lucas will not bother with resolving it: he just wanted to fit the duo in the prequels.

They could’ve done so much with the Anakin character. Show some bit of him being “the best pilot in the galaxy” that doesn’t rely on dumb luck. Let’s see some of his darkside angst, rather than some glowering at Yoda and Mace. If slavery affected him, show some oppression, rather than looking like a part-time job.

And why does Watto need a slave? Wouldn’t droids make slavery unnecessary?

I really enjoy Episode 1. I can forgive a lot of the shortcomings except one… “laser-sword” Lasersword! WTF it’s a light saber!

Alot of the plot holes can actually be filled quite easily.

The only reason this story should be told is because it explains how two of the most important events of the SW universe came to be. Palpatine gaining power over the republic. And Anakin Skywalker getting becoming a Jedi (okay junior Jedi).

Vader the only character who would have known of the existence of the two droids ( with the exception of Obi-wan knowing R2. But he never denies knowing R2 in ANH) never sees R2 and never hears Threepio talk in the Original Trilogy. Lots of gold protocol droids so without the voice he’d have no clue. And besides Threepio is proabably still gray when Ani sees him last.

Actually, throughout the screenplay for Episode I (and what I’ve seen of Episode V’s script), the lightsabers are always referred to as “laser-swords.”

And as for the droids: In Episode V, Luke is asked if he wants R2’s memory wiped, since it is so full. This is thrown out as if it is a common practice for droids. Given the 20 years between Episode III and Episode IV, its an easy assumption that the droids got their memories wiped at some point.

Kirk

Threepios memory must get erased, Artoo’s doesn’t.

But then, Threepio is programmed for protocol, so he can keep a secret.

Anyway, see Episode II, and a lot of the ‘problems’ with Episode I will make more sense.

If that’s your whole idea of the plot, I think you’re missing a very important aspect of it, that I think was probably lost on a lot of people. As GuanoLad says, it’ll probably make more sense after Episode II, but I’m sure somebody can ruin it for you if you ask.

I can’t really think of a single good child actor.

Well, I for one think that Pernilla August, as Shimi Skywalker, was very good. As was Samuel L. Jackson-as can be expected!

And it had EWAN! Isn’t THAT enough? Although I think I would have liked to see his real “lightsaber”, like he said.

Spoiler ahead, maybe(?)
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I though it was clear that Darth Sidious is Senator (and later Emperor) Palpatine. No?

While the entire Pod Race scene was pretty ridiculous, it did have a purpose. It’s one of the ways that Qui-Gon noticed Anakin, as Anakin was the only human capable of controlling one. It proved his skills, and showed that he was not an ordinary child. It was Anakin’s skills with Pod Racing that showed that he had the potential of becoming a Jedi.

Hubzilla - Actually, I paraphrased that from the Time magazine review. After seeing the movie, however, I’m definitely inclined to agree.

Yes, it’s important to know where Anakin came from and how Palpatine began building the Empire. But did we need an entire movie just for those two points? (Oh, yeah, merchandising. I get a feeling that the podrace was intended from beginning to end as video game fodder.)

Ferrous - I dunno…this is one of those things, like the Anakin’s birth, that a little of the dialogue hints at (“I assure you that nothing will change in the Senate.”), but it’s so open-ended that it’s impossible to draw any solid conclusions.

Right now, all I want is some kind of in-movie confirmation that Palpatine actually does become the Emperor. (Yes, yes, I know that’s supposed to happen; I actually want to see it happen.)

Can you tell I can’t hardly wait for Ep. 2? Probably won’t even see it before it comes out on video, too.

DKW: “Right now, all I want is some kind of in-movie confirmation that Palpatine actually does become the Emperor.”

Hmmm, looking through Ian McDiarmid’s filmography, I see the following:

  • Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983) … The Emperor
  • Star Wars: Episode I - The Phantom Menace (1999) (uncredited) … Senator Palpatine
  • Star Wars: Episode II - Attack of the Clones (2002) … Supreme Chancellor Palpatine/Darth Sidious
  • Star Wars: Episode III (2005) … Supreme Chancellor (Emperor) Palpatine/Darth Sidious

Yeah, I know that the second two haven’t happened yet, but even with only Episodes VI and I, it’s pretty damning, no?

Plus the fact that the whole movie makes a lot more sense if we assume that Palpatine = Sidious?

And if you’re a big time SW geek like me, and you read the books, you’ll see the Emperor referred to as Emperor Palpatine the whole time.

It’s no secret-Palpatine IS the Emperor.

Yeah, but the question is, is Palpatine also Darth Sidious? We only see Sidious’ lower face bacause of his cowl, but it sure looks like the same actor, anyway. Perhaps it’s supposed to be a clone?

Well, there is always the possibility that Vader was playing a complicated double game all along. It is no accident that his droids get the plans for the Death Star, he is not on it when it blows up, etc.

And where would he learn such a double game technique? From Palpatine, of course. Palpatine sets up the Trade Federation/Naboo conflict, which is a win either way situation for Palpatine.

It is still possible that Lucas has some adult themes about evil and motivation left here. I’ve thought so since the Empire Strikes Back came out.

If you’ve seen Return of the Jedi I don’t think there’s much of a question about it. The Emperor (Palpatine) in that movie looks ridiculously close to Sidious in The Phantom Menace. The clone idea might work, but for the following:

Given the relationship that The Emperor and Darth Vader have in the two final films, you would have a hard time arguing that they’re not supposed to be Sith. Thus the Emperor (Palpatine), one can pretty much assume, is the Sith Master by the second trilogy. Darth Sidious is the Sith Master in The Phantom Menace. If Palpatine or Sidious is a clone of the other, and Sidious just happens to get replaced by Palpatine somewhere along the line, that sounds mighty convenient.

Plus, there’s more evidence from non-movie sources, but that would be cheating. :smiley: