Last Temptation of Dante's Inferno (attention, FriendofGod)

Great Debates
1

In the “Movie that could change your life” thread, FriendofGod is asking that we not hijack the thread further, so I’m starting a new one to pursue some questions that arose there.

My basic point is this: lots of Fundamentalist Christians get all bent out of shape over “The Last Temptation Of Christ” (the movie, not the book,) on the grounds that it is “inaccurate.” When I pointed out that LTOC specifically states that it is not presenting itself as a factual account, FoG said that even so, they shouldn’t be messing around with the story of the most important person who ever lived.

So my question to FoG and the other FC’s here is this: do you feel similar antipathy towards Dante’s Inferno? After all, the “inaccuracies” are much, much greater, and apparently many people at the time took the Inferno as being a factual account. (Unlike LTOC, which specifically states that it is fiction. Dante, FWIW, had burn scars which many explained as being a result of the events depicted in his poem.) Is it infuriating to you that Dante messed around with such an important topic?

-Ben

2

I haven’t seen that movie but I think putting words into the mouth of Jesus is always skating on thin ice. (Although I, for one, liked Jesus as portrayed, albeit as a hallucination, in “Johnny Got a Gun.”) Heck, people got annoyed when Hoover used long dead Fred Astaire to pitch their vacuum cleaner. Dante did put word’s into the mouths of dead people, but the story could never be mistaken for anything but allegorical even if you opened it at a random page. Dante would hardly have needed a disclaimer akin to: “No, people, I didn’t actually go to Hell and meet the author of the Aenead.” No literate Italian of the day would have thought it was true.

3

As I said before, that’s not what I heard. In any event, no literate American would think that LTOC was a straightforward movie version of the Gospels!

-Ben

4

**jmullaney wrote:

I haven’t seen that movie but I think putting words into the mouth of Jesus is always skating on thin ice.**

But the movie, Last Temptation, didn’t do that. I believe, for the parts of the movie up to the point of the cruxifiction, everything Jesus said in the movie is fairly close to what’s recounted in the 4 Gospels. There are scenes where Jesus is alone, and with no one to record or remember his words or actions, it, of course, is a reconstruction of what might have occured.

It seems everyone gets bent out of shape by the “dream sequence” where Jesus enjoys a life with Mary Magdelene, the two sisters Mary and Martha and has a quiet family life. The most exciting scene, for me in the dream sequence, was the confrontation between Paul and Jesus, something that never happened but I’m sure many Christians would be very interested in seeing.

And how the dream ends is the most powerful, affirming part of the movie.

5

I have to confess that I’ve never seen either movie in question. I can’t comment at all on “Dante’s Inferno” but you can fill me in on it if you want. As for “Last Temptation”, I never saw it but read dozens of quotes from it back when it came out.

As for following the gospels closely, correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there a scene where Jesus thinks he’s possessed by Satan? I vaguely remember something like that. There were other wacked-out lines as well that were blatant misrepresentations of Jesus.

And, again correct me if I’m wrong … but in the so called dream sequence in the end, if I understand correctly, Jesus imagines himself having a life with Mary and rejects it. That by itself would have been kind of weird but not necessarily inconsistant with Christ (who was tempted in all ways but didnt sin). But from what I’ve gathered, he actually fantasizes about having sex with her as well, and rejects the temptation to act out on it (again if this is wrong please let me know). Well this is all well and good, but by fantasizing about it, he has given in to a temptation right there and committed sin! It was the REAL Jesus Christ who made the statement that to lust after a woman was as serious as committing the act of adultery itself.
Now … as for fictionalizing the life of Jesus, I am ALL FOR IT, as long as the fictional aspects are consistent with Jesus and with Biblical truth.

6

Now there’s an oxymoron i hadn’t encountered before -
Biblical Truth, HA!

7

**FriendofGod wrote:

As for following the gospels closely, correct me if I’m wrong but isn’t there a scene where Jesus thinks he’s
possessed by Satan? I vaguely remember something like that. There were other wacked-out lines as well that were blatant misrepresentations of Jesus.**

sigh FriendofGod, This is precisely why you need to see the movie, otherwise you’re just grabbing at straws. In the scene you mention, Jesus is talking with his mother about this “possessions” or “voices” he’s been hearing and feeling. His mother says (paraphrased) “If it’s a demon, it can be cast out.” Jesus replies, “But what if it’s God? Can you cast out God?”

The movie takes the viewpoint (IMHO) that up 'til the that time, the man known as Jesus lead an unremarkable life, completely average in every respect. There was no miracle of his birth, etc. Then the voices and a Presence became known to him, this presence would reveal itself to be God.

** Well this is all well and good, but by fantasizing about it, he has given in to a temptation right there and committed sin! It was the REAL Jesus Christ who made the statement that to lust after a woman was as serious as committing the act of adultery itself.**

double sigh If you’d seen the movie, you would know that (in the dream sequence) Jesus MARRIED Mary M. and THEN had sex with her. Later, when she was heavy with child, she passed away. Jesus then married Mary and her sister Martha. They had a whole passle of kids.

Jumping to the important part of the film; in the dream sequence, near his death, Jesus has an encounter with some of his old friends, who we know as the Apostles. It’s Judas who berates him about not following thru on his promise during the days of his ministry. Jesus explains that an angel of the Lord came and saved him from the cruxifiction. Judas reveals that “the angel” is just Satan in disguise.

Jesus wakes from his dream and is back on the cross, being cruxified. He realises the importance of the dream and how he is the Messiah and willingly gives himself up rather than fighting it, as he’s done previously. By accepting his death willingly, he fulfills the basic premise behind Christianity.

This may not be completely accurate, it’s been several years since I’ve seen this movie, but that’s what’s stuck with me from the viewing and later thoughts.

FoG, if you want to argue about this movie intelligently, you really need to see it, rather than simply relying on quotes and the opinions of others.

8

Please tell me you don’t think Dante’s Inferno was a movie.

**

This is so depressing. Like Freyr said, he was married to her. Christians get accused of being anti-sex. And they counter that oh no, sex is good sex is blessed by God, when done within marriage etc. But when they hear about a scene in a movie that involves sex, they immediatly assume lust, fornication, sin.

He was married to her. The temptation in question was not between sin and lust, and holiness. It was between the natural life of a man, a decent and holy life (that includes sex), and his own higher calling.

I bet they have LTOC at your local video store.

9

What about that “Jesus Christ Superstar” movie?
I always tought it should be much more offensive than “The Last Temptation” yet no close minded christian gives damm about it.
Why the hell is that?

10

TLTOC show Satan at his temptation best. I always thought that Satan as depicted was a straw man, the main enemy who throws batting practice pitches for Jehovah and Jesus to hit homeruns with. I especially felt that from the way Lucifer was portrayed in the “Man must not live by bread alone” sequence. The author and director thought that Satan would have provided more interesting tests and temptations or Jesus to overcome. Thus that marriage proposal at the cruxifiction scene.

11

A little treat for you, FriendofGod – Dante’s Inferno.

12

This, of course, didn’t stop you from making a judgment call about it in the other thread, huh.

I find it utterly amusing and amazingly saddening (not to mention mind-bendingly ironic) that you are constantly wondering why the poor, misguided non-Christians here are so ignorant to the joys of Christianity while at the same time making disparaging commentary about other things (such as LTOC) when the people you claim are ignorant have, for the most part, actually read the Bible (and went to churches and spoke with Christians and all-around managed to get quite informed), and in general are not forming their opinions from anything close to ignorance, whereas you haven’t experienced almost everything that you condemn.

So typical. I’m not like you, I’ll never be like you.

If heaven is populated with folks who are so blatantly hypocritical as you have shown yourself to be, I’d rather be in hell.

And if this whole Rapture nonsense was indeed true, I pray that it happens right as I hit “reply to thread” so I can safely live the rest of my damned days without bearing witness to the likes of you again.

This is Great Debates, pal. Come back when you actually have a working knowledge of the things you want to dislike.

Yer pal,
Satan

*TIME ELAPSED SINCE I QUIT SMOKING:
Ten months, two days, 23 hours, 19 minutes and 7 seconds.
12398 cigarettes not smoked, saving $1,545.07.
Extra life saved: 6 weeks, 1 day, 1 hour, 10 minutes.

See my Sig File FAQ: http://pages.prodigy.net/briank.o/SigFAQ.htm
*

13

What exact parts of the film do fundamentalists actually call “inacuratte”?
From what I remenber it was fairly conservative.

14

Okay, to liven this up a bit…

FriendofGod, here’s a bit of a bet for you:

I will go see Left Behind and pay full admission price, IF YOU will rent The Last Temptation of Christ and view it in its entirity.

Fair enough? At least you’ll be able to talk intelligently about Last Temptation, then.

**MusicJunkie wrote:

What exact parts of the film do fundamentalists actually call “inacuratte”? From what I remenber it was fairly conservative.**

From what I remember in the papers and various other articles, the main object was that Last Temptation didn’t portray Jesus and his ministry as they wanted it shown, as per the 4 Gospels.

Never mind that was never the intent of the movie or the book the movie was based upon. And, right at the beginning of the film, a large message was shown, telling the audience this film was in no way based upon the 4 Gospels.

15

Sure the movie didn’t intend to be like one of those Sunday school flicks about Moses, but it did have a lot to do with the biblical Jesus. And actually made JC’s sacrifice nobler, he had a chance at being normal but decided to die for his people and father instead. At the Bible to do that was his only purpouse in life, and in only one moment he shows any doubt about it.

16

So I guess you haven’t read the other two books of “The Divine Comedy”, the Purgatorio and the Paradiso, either.
FoG, you need to read. Perhaps if you had exposure to other ideas, you might have a more liberal view of Biblical exegesis. Have you at least read any of the Christian classics, like “Paradise Lost” or “The Pilgrim’s Progress”?

That’s just being lazy. God can’t possibly approve of your
condemning a work you’ve never read or seen.

17

I have a feeling that Dante’s Inferno (and yes, Purgatorio and Paradiso as well) were more intended as political commentary than merely just allegory.

This is just my impression from my last read-through. Obviously there are strong religious aspects and symbolism, biblical references, but it’s also obvious that he spent a great deal crafting them so he wouldn’t get branded as a heretic by the church. :slight_smile:

Most of the really controversial stuff dealt with his political views, who he consigned to hell, who he chose to populate the various spheres of heaven, etc.

Interesting stuff. Oddly enough, I had the strong impression that Dante’s Divine Comedy also represented to first example of science fiction. Read the Paradiso and try to prove me wrong. :slight_smile:

18

slortar, I’m not about to try to prove you wrong. Or right, for that matter.

But, for an interesting slant on Dante and the Divine Comedy, I recommend The Western Canon [pub. by Harcourt Brace, 1994] by Harold Bloom. Specifically, the chapter called The Strangeness of Dante: Ulysses and Beatrice.

jm

end hijack

19

I’ll look into it.

The Divine Comedy is still one of the most moving things I’ve ever read. I’ve never read anything before or since that has quite the same awe-inspiring feeling of unity. I dare anyone to get through the end of the Paradiso without being utterly blown away by Dante’s artistic vision.

20

I haven’t seen LTOC, so I can’t comment on it myself. But, at the risk of giving FoG more ammunition to use without watching and judging the movie for himself, this web page http://answers.org/issues/last_temptation.html reviews the movie very thoroughly and explains why they find it blasphemous. An excerpt:

Just thought I’d throw this out for people who have seen the movie to discuss and/or dispute.