Law and Order location shooting NYC – Is everyone in the background an extra?

Cafe Society
1

This is a question that has bothered me for years, especially when watching shows like Law and Order that have parts to it that are filmed on location.

Whenever they’re outside, is everyone in the shot planned and/or in on what’s going on?

How is that possible?

I mean, I can understand the small shots that involve only a few people coming and going being entirely staged. But what about the larger shots, where cars are whizzing here and there, and lines of people are waiting to go god knows where. Are they all in on it?

Again, how is that possible? There are hundreds of people in these shots.

You’d think someone, anyone, would be caught in the background pointing at all the rigging and equipment going, ‘Hey, what’s going on over there?’ or the always present, ‘Woohoo! Hey, over here!’ people, but I never see it. Everyone seems totally fine and acting normal.

And even in smaller budget shows, like Curb Your Enthusiasm, you’ll have shots that can show blocks and blocks away, with traffic jams and everything, and yet no one in the background is acting goofy or honking their horns like idiots. But again, you’ve got rigging, camera dollies, mikes… all that stuff, yet everyone as far as the eye can see is perfectly normal and acting as if there’s nothing out of the ordinary going on.

They can’t all be in on it, can they?

If not, how the hell do they ever get a shot that’s usable?

2

They’d have to be in on it. You just could expect random folks walking by not to look at the camera or otherwise react to or interfere with the actors.

3

I’m assuming you meant, ‘You just couldn’t expect random folks walking by not to look at the camera…’

If not, than I apologize.

But if so, than I totally agree. There has to be extras within the immediate shot, the people who are right up next to the talent, but my question, or curiosity, has to do with where that stops. One block… two blocks… the whole friggen area of the shot?

No way.

But I never see roadblocks or partitions stopping random people and traffic from getting in on the shot, even blocks away.

So I’m assuming there’s some kind of… delineation? Is that the right word? where the paid extras and props end and the real world picks up. Just how far away is that?

4

Having walked through a few TV sets - in one case the set of “Girls club,” so apparently I am bad luck when it comes to TV shows - yes, they do exert control over a certain radius around the shot, but if you see cars and such in the distant background they are not extras. From what I’ve seen they control things within about 20-50 yards, but it depends on the angle of the shot and the physical layout of the location. Usually you have an area cordoned off by the various equipment and paraphernalia and staff that accompany a shoot, and some guys are usually controlling sidewalk traffic.

If you see people and cars and such 100 yards away they are probably not extras; past a distance of 50-75 yards, where people are small and out of focus, you wouldn’t notice them gawking. And if there’s some outrageously obvious thing like someone jumping up and down and pointing or holding up a sign saying I LOVE LENNY BRISCOE they usually do have multiple takes to choose from.

5

Or in my case, “Hey Jerry! You’re not really a friend of Bill W… ARE YOU!?!”

Interesting.

So all, or most, of the cars that are sitting in traffic are real people sitting in traffic? And the people heading wherever they are, really are heading wherever?

Amazing they can actually get a usable shot then, especially in New York. I’d have thought for sure you’d have tourists, people ticked at being blocked from going somewhere they want to go, or what-have-you, standing on the outskirts holding up signs, shouting, and generally being like people in the background of anything that’s being broadcast… idiots.

By the way, you said you walked through a few sets, anything that ever made it on the air? Do the people know they’re being filmed, or do they one day they say, ‘Hey, I was there then, maybe that’s me in the background?’

Fascinating stuff, to me at least.

6

I’ve seen plenty of LAWN ORDER and SEX IN THE CITY shoots down here. Protocol for a true Noo Yawka is to ignore it–OK, you slow down, scan the scene casually for celebs, but always keep on walking. Same as seeing celebs in restaurants or on the sidewalks or theater–ignore 'em, because just like us most of them have to walk places. To do otherwise is to be a rube. I passed Walter Cronkite and his wife the other day on 55th and didn’t think a thing besides “Oh, hey, that old guy is Walter Cronkite!” and of course I didn’t do anything.

They do “warn” neighborhoods with signs on the power line poles and all saying something like “Law and Order will be shooting a scene on East 65th between 1st and 2nd at (time)”, so the neighborhood people know about it, but AFAIK in non-residential areas they don’t bother.

7

It seems most New Yorkers are very mellow about it. When I was there for business a couple of months back, I walked through Grand Central station and they had a whole crew set up. They were filming those story lead in clips for one of the multiple “60 Minutes,” “48 Hours,” or “Dateline” type shows. They were set up in a bit of a secluded corner of the station, but it’s essentially an uncontrollable environment. And none of the public seemed to care. They just went about there business and didn’t bother anyone, no hand waving behind Leslie Stahl’s head, etc. And I think non-NYCers don’t make a fuss so they don’t stand out as tourists.

8

Thanks for the response. No better authority than a person who’s actually been on the scene of one of these things.

Either of you make it on the air?

(I don’t know why I’m fascinated with that part, as I guess it’s not that important. But I know I’d be looking for myself in the background… ‘Hey everyone, that’s me over there. See my hat! Woot!’)

Can the same be said about movies? That is, for the most part, and assuming I understand this all correctly, everything up close is pretty regulated but it doesn’t extend all that far back?

Or does the budget determine how much control they have over who’s in the shot or not, i.e., big budget = closed roads, Law and Order = real bums passed out in the background?

9

Can’t find an article on it, but Double Jeopardy used a lot of unaware (and unpaid) background actors, and there was a whole brouhaha over a man that actually got zeroed in on looking mildly sinister- without his knowledge (until, that is, friend who saw the flic told him). Don’t know if he ever get paid (or, as a good Canadian, if he even asked for money).
CNote, who is “Bill W”?

10

First part:

It’s actually kind of an inside joke having to do with Alcoholics Anonymous. Bill Wilson was one of its co-founders.

One of their little inside things is the ‘freinds of Bill W’ deal. If you ever want to know if someone’s in AA or not, your supposed to say, ‘Are you a friend of Bill W?’ If they answer yes, than you know they’re either a part of it now, or were before, as it’s widely known within AA that Bill Dubya was one of its creators.

The distinction comes when asking a non-member, such as yourself, ‘Are you a friend of Bill W?’ Since you have no clue who he is or what I’m talking about, it’s assumed you’re not apart of that group.

Every once and a while, and even on Law and Order, you’ll hear Briscoe mention something down the lines of the Bill Dubya thing. One that was on just a couple of weeks ago had him responding to a drunk who was on the wagon with a ‘Bill’s a friend of mine too’ sly comment. You wouldn’t really catch it unless you knew his character used to be a chronic and the whole Bill W thing.

So, kind of an inside joke thing that loses all it’s punch once it’s explained.

Thanks!!

Part two:

See, now that’s the part I don’t understand. Unless you give someone permission, their not supposed to use you on the air… or so I thought. That’s why you always see people blurred out on shows like America’s Funniest Video’s and whatnot. No permission = No face.

I’d be curious about that, but it might deserve its own thread, I dunno.

11

LA is the same. During a location shoot, most people just drive on by and don’t look or give a damn. After awhile, it just becomes second nature. I seem to recall an interview with a film director who said he loved shooting on location in LA and mentioned that average people walking by in the background all knew never to look at the camera.

I believe the law is that if you are filmed just in the background, walking down the street or driving a car or doing something mundane, you are not entitled to compensation by a film crew. They cannot do a close up of you picking your nose or something that would immediately identify you and embarrass you in public, but just being a part of a crowd that is filmed is legal.

A lot of production companies will have extras walk by if they need to have a more “on the street” feel. And of course, scenes filmed on the lot are always populated by extras…they have a cool “New York” street on several LA studio lots.

One example of an extra that popped out of the crowd was the ruddy faced woman who got off the elevator in the opening credits of the old Mary Tyler Moore Show. She was interviewed often and said she used to get recognized quite a bit just from that little snippet in the opening credits I believe, however, she was a paid extra.

12

Thanks Dmark and the others. I still find it amazing more people don’t make spectacles of themselves when they realize what’s going on. Or at least do the live TV ‘Look ma! It’s me!’ thing.

Kinda cool they don’t, I guess. And I guess it makes sense people get used to it once when they’re surrounded by it (Doesn’t really explain the people behind the ‘Today Show’ window though…) But hey, maybe’s there’s more people out there that simple don’t care than those that want to make an idiot of themselves on TV.

Cool.