Law School--After Graduating

I hear now’s a terrible, terrible time to go to law school because there are far too many people graduating to fill far too few slots.

I’m curious to know whether there are ways to excel in law school such that after graduating, people will know for sure you’re one of the ones to snatch up. Or is it pretty much luck of the draw and social connections and a lucky internship or two?

There are many ways. Here are some of the ones that I know.

  • Go to the best (highest rep) school you can. And bear in mind that some schools are not even worth graduating from.

  • Get the best scores you can in every subject. If you can graduate with a prize, award etc. of some kind, then that’s better.

  • Try to get summer (or any) internships at, well anywhere you can - govt. and private sector. Do it every year, not just your final year. Make friends with everyone you meet. Don’t piss off anyone.

  • If you have an ultimate goal for where you want to ultimately work, then focus on making contacts in those places. Do whatever you have to do.

Good luck. Others will have more ideas.

I am not a lawyer, but have worked with whole bunches of them, in various specialties.

Yep, luck helps - being in the right place, knowing the right people - this helps a lot!

Also, having the right niche can be helpful - copyrights/trademarks/patents would probably be good in regions where this is especially useful (Silicon Valley, Hollywood, NYC) but the problem is, the competition is fierce in those niches, in those regions.

As an example, for an entry level position at the film studio where I worked, there were quite literally hundreds of over-qualified applicants for about 3 or 4 intern positions. Then, after about a year, they finally selected ONE intern to be hired full time - and the salary was pathetic - entry level crap. The good news is, back then the guy they hired (sort of thanks to my help) is still working at that studio and finally earing some major bucks.

The other dirty little secret about getting prestige jobs like this is just what you would expect; you have to look the part, be the part, and suck up to the right people and not be afraid to stab anyone else in the back to get to the top. Go to any of the studios and check out the new legal hires - they look like models (both male and female), but also need a degree from a prestigious school, with excellent grades. They need to work like dogs and take no credit (the other attorneys will take the credit from you), put up with long hours, sexual harassment and have no personal life. Or, you have a very close relative in the company who is a bigwig and has handed the job to you on the silver platter.

To make matters worse in prestige jobs like this, your career often has the duration of a fruit fly. Any number of factors can cause you to be fired in an instant. The minute one person is promoted, several cronies come along for the ride and others are sent packing. Keep those options open and make lots and lots of friends along the way - trust me, the day will come when you need to suddenly pack your desk and move on, and it helps to have about 200 close friends in that old Rolodex to call and see who is hiring.

My guess is, the same story is true of the big, prestigious law firms in any metropolitan city, pretty much world-wide.

Even in lowly Las Vegas, at the fairly well-known law firm where I once worked, they would get hundreds of applications for internships. Some got the internships because they knew somebody who knew somebody at the law firm But those who got in on merit worked their asses off and in the several years I worked there, they hired a grand total of ZERO of those interns. They had enough lawyers and were greedy and didn’t want or need any more attorneys.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but short of hanging up your own shingle and hoping against hope of finding a few good clients, it ain’t easy.

Are there far too slots? Or is it that the majority of law school grads want to start on Wall Street, Michigan Avenue, Bay Street, or similar places?

When I graduated from a Canadian law school, most of my colleagues expected to land places in Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, or Montreal. But those places were selective; while lawyers were also needed in Peace River, AB; Kapuskasing, ON; Truro NS, and other small places. Yes, it was possible to work your way up, but many of my classmates wanted to start at the top in the cities above, as it were. Some succeeded, but many failed. They were lawyers out of a job, in a way; because they wouldn’t move to where the opportunities were.

I wonder if the same thing is at work in the US. The Northwestern law school grad who doesn’t find a job in Chicago–well, is he or she willing to move to and work in Springfield, Il? Or Des Moines, IA? Or Gary, IN?

It’s not really difficult.

  1. Go to a T14 school
  2. Graduate in the top third (ideally quarter) of your class
  3. Make Law Review; win a prominent Moot Court competition; get published; win a prize (ideally do more than one of those things)
  4. Be willing to move anywhere.

I think that if you follow those four simple steps, you’re pretty much guaranteed a decent job, even in this economy.

This is an exceedingly important factor. One of my friends at a (top-tier) law school graduated Order of the Coif, loads of litigation and volunteer experience during law school, former Peace Corps volunteer - and the only position she was able to find straight out of law school was a clerkship in the United States Virgin Islands. She took it, and had an … interesting … time there, but it certainly wasn’t what she’d planned on.

Honestly, a great deal of the job search is just dumb luck - you’ll spend much of your third year applying to jobs, hundreds of them. That insanely talented friend of mine needed three years to land a job in the continental US; I started a decent civil service position a couple months after I sat for the Bar.

A few other thoughts:

Law school professors are outstanding networking resources. They can’t usually get you a summer job, or a job after graduation, but they can get you interviews. The best thing you can do, if you love a class, is to go to office hours and say, “I love this material - what can do I to get more experience in this field?” Note that this is especially helpful if you participate in class - I’m not saying you should be a gunner (that guy whose hand is always in the air), but you should be answering questions intelligently at least once per class, or asking good questions. Dropping by office hours from time to time to ask about pending litigation can be helpful, too.

Another poster mentioned copyright and patent law - those are absolutely booming fields, but be aware that patent law requires a hard science/engineering undergrad degree (with some caveats), and a lot of intellectual property shops will want to hire people who can do trademark, copyright, and patent work. Even if you don’t need to be a member of the patent bar, a lot of shops will still want you to be able to demonstrate technical competence. (For example, the EFF and similar organizations).

Moot court and law review are good things, and you should do them - but if you want to do public interest work, I’d argue that the best thing you can do during law school is, well, public interest work. Volunteer at a local nonprofit, join a law school clinic, teach a high school constitutional law class - do something to show that you’re willing to work hard and leave the library to make a difference. (And if you’re not hoping to do public interest work, I’d question the wisdom of going to law school - honestly, there are easier ways to make a buck).

Another way to improve one’s odds of a job after law school: Have a job before law school. Get some work experience and skills outside of law.

Thanks :wink: but I’m not asking for that reason. I actually have considered it in the past, but then I learned that, at law schools, even the best full-ride scholarship leaves you completely on the hook for rent and living expenses (unlike my experience in grad school) so that’s a no go for me given my practical circumstances.

For what it’s worth, you can use federal Grad Plus loans to cover living expenses, should you wish to do so. That’s what I and most of my friends did in law school.

Actually, in my experience, getting a job somewhere like the USVI is tough.

From what I saw, if you were willing to go to DC or NY or LA or San Fran, you could pretty much guarantee landing a BigLaw job. That was even more true if you could expand to Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, or, maybe, Miami. But, if you were set on one of those, it was much tougher.

Oddly, this was particularly true if you want to go to some place unusual (and I don’t mean just the USVI, I mean places like Indianapolis or Charlotte or Nashville; mid-size markets), you needed to have a real connection there. Or a damn good reason. Frankly, if you want to practice in Nashville, I would amended “step 1” to “Go to Vanderbilt”.

I would agree that getting a job in the USVI is generally difficult; as you say, it’s a small legal market. My friend got the job there because she’s awesome. :smiley: My point, though, is that this awesome friend wasn’t able to leverage that awesomeness into a job in DC, NYC, Chicago, San Francisco, etc, for a good long time. I would strongly disagree with the proposition that, so long as you’re willing to go to any big legal market, you’re pretty much guaranteed a BigLaw gig. BigLaw was exceedingly competitive even before 2008, and has become even more so now. Yes, they still make a lot of hires - but there are loads more law school grads who want those jobs in big cities.

I don’t know your experience, Falchion, so I’ll say this for the benefit of non-lawyers on the Dope:

The bar imposes some real constraints upon lawyer mobility, for new lawyers especially. The most common method of entry for BigLaw is to clerk for a firm in the summer after your 2L year, and get an offer on the strength of your performance in that clerkship. Then you plan your third year classes and bar exam around that job - if the firm is in Illinois, you sit for the Illinois bar, for example. But if you don’t get an offer, or your offer is rescinded (many are), and you don’t get a job offer by spring of your third year, you’ll be planning for your bar exam a bit blind. A lot of people will sit for the California, New York, Texas, or Florida when they don’t know where they will be working, on the theory that “Hey, this is a big legal market, it’s worth a shot.”

But if you can’t find a job in your state, you’ve got a problem. Not an impossible one - the feds, for example, don’t care where you’re licensed (with rare exceptions), and some entry-level gigs will hire you so long as you’re willing to sit for the next bar in their state. Further, some jurisdictions enjoy reciprocity with others; you can “waive in” without sitting for another bar exam. But waiving in isn’t always an option, and does always take time, and plenty of non-profits and firms want you to be licensed or waiting for bar results the moment you step in the door.

So: Yes, finding a job can be a lot simpler if you’re willing to move to any large legal market. But being in a position to practice in any large legal market is not a trivial undertaking.