I pit the legal job market

The BBQ Pit
1

Damnit. Damnit damnit damnit damnit damnit.

I just graduated law school, and I know that I’m wet behind the ears, and that it’s a brutal job market, and that everyone is hurting right now. But, damnit, I am good at what I do. When I worked in one of my law school’s clinics, I was the lead counsel on a deportation case. I’ve had real successes in Freedom of Information Act work, both in litigation and administrative appeals, against agencies that don’t make such things easy. I’ve worked on civil liberties litigation, and helped run grassroots campaigns. I’ve taughts freaking high school Constitutional Law, for Ford’s sake. And I’ve done all these things just over the past three years of law school. I earned serious, responsible positions, and I did well in them.

Now? Now, I’m scrounging for temp work, getting rejected from doc review gigs. I don’t even give a damn about the money - I came to law school to do gov’t or nonprofit work, neither of which pay princely sums - but I’m sitting in my parent’s house, an unemployed loser, and I should be working, damnit. And it doesn’t help that the damned BigLaw firms, in order to save money, are paying their associates to go work for nonprofits at half wages - which means that every time I apply for a gig at a nonprofit, I’m competing with people who’ll bring their own salaries with them, never mind that they don’t necessarily even give a damn about the work they’d be doing, and are just killing time until they can make their BigLaw salaries.

Yah, I know that this is lame and self-indulgent ranting, and I’ll stop now. But I really, really, really hate the fact that there’s absolutely no way right now for me to demonstrate my worth as a lawyer to myself, let alone anyone else.

Fuck the job market. Fuck it sideways, with a dildo retrieved from the dumpster behind one of the less savory Bangkok strip clubs. Fuck.

2

How about the public defender’s office? Or hang out a shingle and hire yourself?

3

Many PD jobs are actually quite competitive. The Washington DC PD is the best in the country. Without some background or demonstrated interest in criminal defense, especially in this market, it probably ain’t happening. And hanging a shingle is nigh impossible for a new lawyer these days, if it was ever possible. The malpractice insurance alone means you pretty much have to start with a lump of money or clients in hand. Even then, you’ll get experience writing wills and doing personal injury stuff–not the kind of experience Mr. Excellent is seeking.

I sympathize. I count myself fortunate to have a stable gig for a few years, and I’m just praying the market recovers in that time. My only constructive suggestion is that you can at least be working somewhere for free while you look for a job. You could intern for a judge, for example. That would be especially good because that judge will be well-connected and might be able to help you out in six months time.

4

Have you tried the illegal job market? :stuck_out_tongue:

5

I’m in the same boat, my friend. It’s quite the same in New York - especially with the BigLaw furloughed associates fucking it up for the rest of us. And Legal Aid (Public Defender) is extremely competitive here too.

I assume you are trolling usajobs.gov, fd.org, pslawnet.org, idealist.org, your city agencies and of course craig’s list for leads, if not try out any/all of the above. FD.org (Federal Defenders) actually has a lot of interesting positions, if you’re willing to relocate to say, rural Texas.

Chin up! Keep in touch with your contacts, friends who are working, law review alumni, etc. I actually have a networking buddy so I don’t have to go to schmoozing events alone. You might look for a volunteer opportunity as well. Things will come round eventually.

6

Thanks, Richard Parker. Congratulations on getting a steady gig of your own - that’s no mean feat. I think your suggestion to work for free is a good one - if for no other reason than that the job search simply can’t be a full-time job on its own, and I’m going a bit nuts here. I’d be leery of signing on for an actual internship, for fear that I might need to leave prematurely to take a paid position, but I’ve a standing opportunity to volunteer in a local non-profit. I might do that.

And, by the way, you’re absolutely right on the DC PD’s office. I have some friends going in there, and some profs who used to work there. If I ever got in a jam, I think I’d prefer a DC public defender to a paid defense attorney. (Which is good, because Ford knows I couldn’t afford one.) DC public defenders are badly overworked, but they think that merely “vigorous” advocacy is for amateurs - they prefer something more like “fanatical”. I’m told they have an in-house counsel whose primary responsibility is to reign in some of the PDs’ wackier ideas.

7

It’s not the [specific industry] job market that sucks, it’s every job market. Except repo men, of course. And insurance industry lobbyists.

8

Thanks, man. Yah, I’m trolling all those sites, for all the good it’s doing me.

Good luck to you, brother.

9

True, but there are a couple unusually vicious things about the state of the legal job market:

1.) It’s hitting new grads very hard, and these grads have sizable mountains of student debt. Sure, lots of people have student debt - but not many have six figures worth.

2.) Not only is no one hiring, but some of the people (BigLaw firms) who aren’t hiring are also paying their existing new hires to work in nonprofits - so not only are there no BigLaw jobs, the BigLaw firms are also doing everything they possibly could to contribute to the scarcity of nonprofit jobs.

10

Workers’ compensation defense and SSDI departments are hiring, at least down here. How about setting aside your principles for a paycheck for a while?

11

I feel for you but when you entered law school you either failed to get an idea of the market or someone misinformed you. There’s a glut of lawyers everywhere.

As of two years ago huge firms here in Dallas collapsed, three years ago lawyers were being laid off. We’re talking top 5%, law journal people with actual experience.

Is it possible to go back to school and get an MBA or use your undergrad degree?

To all you folks who are thinking about law school, think again. The law schools make money by the number of its students and not all are completely honest about the market.

12

Have you considered joining Army/Air Force/Navy Reserve JAG or Army/Air Force National Guard JAG? It’s a similar application process to active duty JAG, but it means you won’t have to join the military full-time. At the very least, it’s a virtually guaranteed interview with a Field Screening Officer (FSO), assuming that a particular base or post is within driving distance from you. Like every other legal job nowadays, however, the selection process is getting more and more competitive.

13

Have you been admitted yet? If so, you may find something in government work. Enforcing child support for the state would get you court experience…and a paycheck with benefits.

Also, you may wish to contact either your state bar or the local family/juvenile court about guardian ad litem work. In my state, you have to either attend a training session, or watch a video to get annually certified, and you have to be available to handle two cases pro bono per year–but you get paid for other cases. Judges keep a list of local lawyers qualified and willing to accept appointments. This gets you in court, and talking to lawyers, so you can network for job leads too.

14

That’s what I was going to say. We just don’t need any more lawyers in this country, we’re full. Sorry.

15

I can’t do that because I don’t speak Spanish. Or, around here, Polish. :frowning:

Dude (Mr. Excellent), do what rookie lawyers have done for many, many generations*: hang out in Traffic Court and wait for the judge to ask someone if he had counsel, then jump on him before the other starving lawyers do. From my observations I recommend a cheap, gaudy suit tells potential clients that you are willing to work cheap, so save the Armani for when your practice is established.

ETA: * - Okay, that’s just a few generations. For the rest, and my wife has read their records from Ancient Egypt, try Night Court. Then, as now, it was hookers, johns who wouldn’t pay, and drunk and disorderly, and then, as now, the sentence was the local equivalent to “fifty bucks and time served.”

ETAA: Okay, Night Court was on in the 80s. It’s probably “one hundred fifty bucks and time served” now.

16

As a tip for federal jobs from a federal attorney

  1. You may still have time to apply to the Feds through the Legal Honors Internship/Hon. Atty Fellowship* programs (this would be for next year). They usually accept applicants up to one year out of school (which means you are tolling that right now) although the majority of us come in straight from law school. These jobs/fellowships are entirely seperate from the usajobs website.

For example: see here for Region 9 of EPA

http://www.epa.gov/region/orc/positions.html

  1. It is really, really, really hard to be hired as a young attorney without coming in as an Honors Fellow, esp. because we’re flooded with out of work associates suddenly knocking down the doors. Not impossible, but pretty hard. This has nothing to do with your intelligence, but with the type of work, especially if you are in a specialised program/regulatory work. I would strongly recommend you concentrate your efforts on finding out every agency’s Fellowship application and going through this process. My law school had a list of all the websites.

  2. I’d concentrate on Homeland Security if I were you. They were hiring like crazy a while back. If you want to bolster your application, do some work for free in the area. I got in on a big round of retirements with zero experience in what I am now doing. But I was looking at the bios on our new fellows and they all have do-gooding free work in the general area of my agency’s mission (though not at the federal level).

My agency is actually at capacity-right now everything is internal and we’re only really letting people transfer. I still think we hired 20 fellows this year, though.

*The name fluctuates. When I started they were called Legal Honors Intern across the agencies. Then it was Clerkship, now it looks like Honors Attorney Fellowship

17

I third the volunteer idea. Most of the legal aid clinics have a lot more cases than time, and will be glad to hand you a few. You also get experience and make contacts. Most will let you do part time, especially if you are admitted.

18

Go to Taiwan to teach English.

19

Try looking outside the legal job market, at least temporarily. Plenty of companies would be happy to hire a college graduate who happens to have a law degree.

20

That’s not really a fair assessment. Two years ago, in most of the country, the legal market was booming and had been for two decades. It was not an unreasonable calculation that, barring financial disaster on a level much greater than the last few recessions, there would be jobs. It’s just that, lo and behold, there was a financial disaster of epic proportions.