Frustrated attorney / litigator seeks career advice

In My Humble Opinion
1

I have been a business litigator for about 5 years now. I hate it. I have no desire to excel at it. I have no desire to get on the partnership track. I have done it because it’s what “pays the bills”. No more.

I love history and politics, especially California government.

What kinds of jobs would an attorney be able to do that overlap government? A couple of things to keep in mind are:

  1. It takes forever to get a government job;

  2. The state is not likely hiring right now anyway; and

  3. I need enough money to pay my student loans, so I can’t take internships or go get a Masters. I don’t need a lavish lifestyle, but I need to pay the bills.

My potential career thoughts are:

  1. Consulting: Maybe get in with a consulting firm or company, such as the ones installing new election systems around the state.

  2. Lobbying: Any lobbyists out there want to tell me about it? Is it a good job? Are there “billable hours”?

  3. Law firm that deals with political law: Maybe, but that sounds like more litigation crap.

  4. Joint Powers Authority: Work with government but avoids the civil service mess.

Basically, I find that I HATE reading about arbitration clauses, trade secrets. and whatnot, but I LOVE reading about campaigns and public policy. If I could work with government, it wouldn’t really feel like work. I am moved by my desire to help make the state a better place.

Thanks!

2

Have you thought about getting into a business transactional law firm? You still have the law firm/ partnership crap to deal with, but none of the contention of litigation. Both parties can end up happy with the arrangement.

Abe Babe, Esq. (who is perfectly happy never setting foot in a courtroom)

3

Business transactions is a possibility, but I think, deep down, business just ain’t my thing. I was an unhappy business major in college until I switched to politcal science. I think moving in the government direction is the way to go, whether practicing law or not.

4

I’ve never done lobbying, but I’ve got numerous friends that do it, and all of them love it. I mean, all of them love it. They all think they’ve got the greatest job in the world. And I don’t think they’ve got billable hours.

Consulting, on the other hand, seems pretty similar to litigation. You do have billable hours, and most consulting firms appear to have partnership tracks. I don’t know how much different your day to day life would be, except maybe the subject matter of the law that you’re working with. But maybe that will be enough.

If you’re trying to avoid billable hours, but still want to stay within the confines of the law, I’d suggest getting a job in a prosecutor’s office. I did it for 3 months, and had an absolute ball. Any chance you can interview now, get on a waiting list, and keep your current job until something opens up?

By the way, I’m in commercial litigation. I grew to despise going to work. Then I changed firms, and it rekindled my love of the law. (Yes, I’m a law geek.)

5

My legal career consists of three bus lit firms in 5 years. I haven’t had much fun at any of them. Thus, a new bus lit firm is not the answer.

Consulting is similar to bus lit in that they both have billable hours and the partnership track, but consulting on public sector issues might not be so bad (e.g., implementation of electronic voting systems).

The focus for me is on public sector crossover work, and to a lesser extent, the bane that is billable hours. If I can get into a subject matter I enjoy, the workload won’t seem so bad.

Any other lawyers out there that took alternate careers?

6

I am a state government lawyer, currently in danger of losing my politically appointed job due to an administration change. I spent 7 years as a civil service employee prior to the last year and a half in this one.

Sounds like you would enjoy government work very much. I would suggest at least getting on the hiring list for a government job. You may get lucky. Don’t forget to check with your legislative branch, too. They hire lots of lawyers.

Check out trade associations and industry groups – the Home Builders or the Farm Bureau for instance. That would be a good way to get a start in Lobbying. Go hang around the State Capitol for a while, especially while the legislature is in session. See if you like sitting in committee meetings.

7

Well, I have sat in as a watchdog observer on meetings of the California Coastal Commission and the Board of Funeral Directors and Embalmers [now defunct], and I can say for sure that I LOVED it.

I would go to lunch, dinner, and drinks with the Coastal Commissioners, interview the Executive Officers and counsel for the agencies, track legislation and litigation affecting the agencies, and write articles summarizing agency activities.

Did I mention that I LOVED it?

8

It seems to me that you should think very carefully about what exactly you don’t like about your job. For most commercial litigation associates, the problem is not commercial litigation per se, but the total lack of autonomy; the micromanagement; and the billable hours issues that come with working in law firms.

For what it’s worth, I was a commercial litigation associate for a number of years until I hung out a shingle about 1 1/2 years ago. I was miserable as a litigation associate, but I love being a solo practitioner.

Being a litigation associate is NOT the same thing as being an attorney.

9

How many years before you hung a shingle, lucwarm?

I have considered hanging a shingle, but the attorneys I know waited at least 10 years before doing so. I feel like I may not have accumulated enough practical legal knowldege to effectively hang a shingle, and I have no client base.

I know a 3rd year attorney who is new in town and has no client base, and wants to take out a home equity line and hang a shingle. I am afraid that he will fall flat on his face and lose his home in the process.

… and yes, the micromanagement sucks.

10

Have you ever considered journalism? It sounds like you enjoy observing and tracking government activity. Doesn’t pay as well as the law, but you may be doing what you like more.

Also, I’ll repeat – go ahead and apply for state government work. It can’t hurt. Once you get into the system, you’re in for good – that is, after your first job, it’s much easier to move around between agencies.

11

Honestly, I think I’d love state government work, Frankd6. The problem is that the state isn’t giving the Civil Service Exams which are a prerequisite to state employment. The lack of Exams stems from the hiring freeze which stems from the bungled state budget. The fact that Arnold wants to cut taxes and balance the budget makes state employment even more unlikely.

That’s part of the frustration I am experiencing, so I am considering other options that get me closer to the state and further from business (e.g., Lobbying or JPA’s).

12

About 5 years. But if I could go back and change history, I would have hung a shingle straight out of law school. Because back then I didn’t have a mortgage payment and kids. In fact, I’m making about the same this year as my first year at the law firm.

**

Trust me, you have plenty of knowledge. Besides, most mistakes as an attorney can be fixed. Read “How to Start and Build a Law Practice” by Jay Foonberg.

As far as getting clients goes, it’s not as hard as you might think. See, law firms need clients who are willing to pay $500/hr for somebody to chase commas. Those kind of clients are hard to find.

But it’s a lot easier to find folks who have been harmed in some way and who are willing to let you keep a percentage of whatever you can get for them.

**

That’s a definite concern. You need to make sure you have plenty of capital. I am fortunate in that my parents will bail me out if I get into too much trouble.

But that’s why it’s best to hang out your shingle as early as possible. As you grow older, you get more and more financial obligations, making it more and more difficult to take the leap.

**

Yep. Also keep in mind that, as I said before practicing law is really a lot of fun. But imagine if you kept the most interesting tasks to yourself and delegated the rest to a more junior attorney. And imagine that this guy did the same thing and that some poor schmuck at the bottom of the chain was stuck with all the sh*t. Of course he’d be miserable. And that’s what life is like as a law firm associate.

Dealing with trade secrets, the UCC, or whatever is a lot more interesting if you’re calling the shots; researching the issues you think are necessary; and ignoring the rest. Also note that as a solo practitioner, you have great (but not total) freedom to turn down work you find uninteresting.

13

Hmmm…

Solo practice sounds interesting, but without an instant client base, I don’t think I would have enough start-up capital to weather the storm until I could turn the corner.

Not to mention, if I got a business loan of some sort, I would have to add that on top of my student loans. I hardly make enough to pay the student loans let alone more loans oiled on top of that. Yes, student loans could be deferred, but that would tack on maybe 3 years of interest and higher loan payments at the end of the deferment. OUCH!

Solo practice sounds like a pipe dream for me.

14

Try your hand at being a judicial clerk. The feds are paying the best these days it seems. Plenty of governmental hijinks and you get to keep your hand in the litigation thing too. You could play that type of position into a better paying litigation job down the road too.

cj

15

Too bad. Another way to do it is to hook up with a firm or established attorney who will pay you a steady salary while giving you a realistic opportunity to establish your own business.

In any event, it’s always difficult as an attorney to be working for another attorney.

16

What about water rights?

Between the population growth of the southwest and the limited supply of the stuff I would think there’d be plenty of issues you could become involved with that affect the water supply and the future of your state in a fundamental way. Cadillac Desert’s a good intro if you haven’t read it already.

17

I am SO not a lawyer, nor do I know anything much about legal careers, but I do work at a university and the folks in the legal department seem to enjoy their work very much. A university can be a great place to work – there are lots of opportunities to get involved with various projects and initiatives beyond the scope of a standard job description. Many offer tuition remission if you want to return to school, or even just take continuing ed courses for fun.

I work at a large institution, our lawyers tend to have areas of speciality, but at a smaller school there might be more overlap. Granted, some of them are not very interesting (to me at least), but there is definitely variety.

My school is a private, and the legal office has a fair amount of involvement with lobbying and other government-related initiatives, and I suspect that would be even more true within a state system.

And in summation (don’t you lawyers say that? :wink: ) I’ll add that despite the fact that I have been known on occasion to complain about my job, overall I really do believe that working in education is a fine way to contribute to making one’s state a better place.

18

Bearflag70… I understand you’re boredom with the legal profession. I have worked as a Para-Legal Officer for many years until the last few years…

I don’t know if you have such positions in the U.S. or not, but here there are a few positions for people with a legal background who head up departments that investigate and, if proved, follow through with charges and punishments, for members of the Police Force who use their position illegally. (Anti-corruption-type issues that are rife within the Police Force - well they are over here, anyway!). Having worked in one of those offices for over a year, I found it incredibly interesting and enlightening.

19

The position which pops out at me:

Staff lawyer for political party or campaign - I have no idea how to secure such a position (long, hard work would be my guess), but for a political junkie with a JD, it sounds like a fit.

20

Bearflag I wish you great luck with your transition.

Last June I left my job as a litigation associate at a huge LA firm to join a startup that sells software and online services to lawfirms. I am so much happier now.

A few general thoughts on your situation:

  1. It may not feel like it right now, when you are confused, nervous, scared, etc., but the great news is that you have figured out what interests you: politics and government, particulary (it sounds like to me) government administration. I cannot stress how great it is that you know this about yourself and what interests you. Many many many people lead boring uninteresting unfulfilling lives (whether or not they have the outer trappings of “success”) because they never take the time to figure out what interests them.

  2. The other piece of great news is that what you want to do, politics and government, fits very well with your legal background. A JD is a huge asset when trying to get into politics: look at how many people in government–especially the higher reaches of government–are lawyers.

  3. The challenge right now is going to be figuring out how to get from A to B.

That last part–getting from A to B–is what is looming in front of you right now, but I stress that is GOOD news. It means that the hard part, figuring out what you want to do, is already done.

I recommend you embark on a campaign of vigorous informational interviewing. Try to talk to anyone you can who is doing anything even remotely connected with politics or government, whether at the federal, state, city, or county level.

Get lists of people from your law school, your college, your high school. Tell everyone of your friends that you are considering a transition into government, and you’d like to talk to anyone they know who has any connection at all to government. Make clear to everyone everyone everyone that you are asking for advice NOT bugging people for jobs. If you email someone or call someone out of the blue asking for advice, they are usually flattered, and they will usually talk with you, and if they like you, they will really go out of their way to help you. On the other hand, if you start bugging them for a job, then they will treat you like a telemarketer and try to get rid of you asap.

Make up a quick blurb about yourself for both your emails and phone calls. It should stress the positive: you have been working for several years doing litigation at (name of impressive firm) but you are considering making a transition into government and you’d like some advice. You should say a little bit about your background, with particular emphasis on the projects you did that you really loved, and what you loved about them.

Every time you talk with someone, you should also ask them if they could suggest one or two other people that you might speak with.

Don’t get hung up on whether the state is hiring, or Schwarzenegger’s budget cuts, or whatever. Focus right now on developing a network of people who can give you advice, tell you about opportunities that you might not even have heard of, and help you connect with other folks who are looking to fill a spot.

In my case this took several months, false starts, people who thought I was perfect for the job but then at the last second couldn’t get budget approval to hire me (or so they said), old friends who kept scheduling and rescheduling a 5 minutes phone conversation until I finally gave up, etc. The idea is, don’t get hung up on any one thing or any one person or any one opportunity. Keep moving. Try to make at least one or two calls, or send one or two emails per day. Dont’ be afraid to email someone out of the blue to ask for advice, or to call them.

Good luck with this. You are going to luck back on this and be so happy that you made this switch.

Feel free to email me if you want to talk about this further (my email is in my profile.)