Native Pittsburgher here. Transplanted out West.
Saw this on a real estate show tonite. Really???
Yeah, I heard they plan to build a lot of nice restraunts out there, including a Nakama.
A friend of mine owns a bar there. He was able to get $$ (low interest loans) to improve the place and hopes to hit it big.
The Thunderbird Cafe. Not long ago a dive shot/beer place.
Yep. Lawrenceville and East Liberty are being gentrified like you wouldn’t believe.
I’m going on 7 years as an East Ender (the general vicinity of yuppies, tech workers, nonprofit employees, college and grad students and other assorted educated DINKS) and I spend a decent chunk of time in Lawrenceville. Yes it’s up and coming, yes it’s fun to spend time in. Got great “cool” bars, restaurants, foodie scene, curated shops, bakeries, etc.
The problem is that the only reason it’s booming is the URA (government wing that owns city real estate) has given out tons and tons of interest free loans.
The aftermath of URA funding is playing out in the South Side currently, where the loans dry up and move elsewhere (they moved to Lawnreceville mostly) and the property taxes are doubled or tripled, business owners and new condo or townhouse owners have trouble selling because they purchased and in an inflated bubble. The only people who end up benefitting are the renters who can make quick exits, the government coffers and the developers who took advantage of the interest free loans and made their hasty exits. The buyers and small time real estate investors get screwed - and they make up the bulk of those involved in the neighborhood. It should be noted this isn’t much different than what goes on in other cities, it’s just worth mentioning.
East Liberty still has yucky crime rates. Lawrenceville’s started out better and keep improving, but you’re talking about two different types of gentrifying populations. One was working class whites, the other was welfare based.
I think the new children’s hospital has something to do with it, too. I was a renter in Lawrenceville while construction was ongoing and for a little bit after it was finished. It felt like the hospital being done coincided with the time that rents went from being a little higher than other neighborhoods to being absolutely crazy. Though I’ve been out of that market (renting) for a couple years and I’m told that they’re relatively high all across the city now.
Incidentally, we specifically excluded the neighborhood from our house search because the prices people were asking for places they had bought two or three years ago and did minimal work to were insane.
Oh the prices for garbage row houses are hilarious. Especially considering the fact that there are still tons of burnouts and vacant buildings scattered throughout.
Rents in Squirrel Hill are quite low, IMO. But then again, their crime rate is miserable. Doesn’t matter if you live in the further reaches of Sq Hill - but then that begs the question why live in the city at all.
What makes you say the crime rate in Squirrel Hill is miserable?
About a decade ago I was living in that dark, brick castley looking apartment building on Murray right off the parkway in Squirrel Hill. It was indeed damn cheap. Of all the things I’ve heard people say about Squirrel Hill, though, I’ve never heard anybody complain about the crime before. I know there’s the occasional burglary of one of the many businesses there (I saw a jewelry shop was unsuccessfully robbed this past week) but of all the places I’ve ever lived, Squirrel Hill’s got to be in the top few in terms of how safe I’ve felt walking around at any hour of the day or night.
Bolding mine. To this day, Sq Hill is one of my favorite neighborhoods to eat in, the Cage has a soft spot in my heart. In 2006 at age 19 when I first moved to the city I figured I’d move to Sq Hill in the next couple years, cause it’s where the college grads who weren’t price conscious (if you weren’t you were in Shadyside) and who weren’t big partiers (if you were, you were in Southside) lived.
That said, in about late 2008/to mid 2009 it started getting “hood” at night. The hipster 30 somethings and the yuppie Jewish and Catholic families went home at nightfall and lots of weird loiterers started hanging out on street corners. I went to a few parties with the beat crime reporters for the PG and Trib; Sq Hill’s seen an uptick in crime and lots of the apts on Murray and Forbes are now Section 8.
Orr’s took all the jewelry out of the display cases and now has a round the clock cop out front. Tons of other jewelery stores have been broken into and rents have fallen or stayed stable (whereas have gone up in every other desirable neighborhood significantly)
My theory is that Lawreceville and Bloomfield started upticking about then so the desirable city neighborhoods went from
up till 2008/mid 2009: Shadyside, Sq Hill, Southside
mid2009-present: Shadyside, Lawrenceville, Bloomfield, Southside, Greenfield, Squirrel Hill
It’s not as if I haven’t set foot in Squirrel Hill since living there. As far as the subjective experience of it getting more “hood” at certain times of the day than it used to, if I’m properly understanding your meaning I have not noticed that nor would I particularly care if I had.
I have been able to find the city’s annual crime reports for 2007-2012 and the amount of crime (both violent and total) in Squirrel Hill appeared to be steady over that time period. It’s not the lowest of Pittsburgh’s neighborhoods by any means, but I wouldn’t expect that in one with a well-patronized commercial area.
Finally, why do you think that many of the apartments on the main drags of Squirrel Hill are now Section 8? There are maximum rent amounts beyond which an apartment is not eligible for tenants to use a voucher. In Allegheny County, it’s $540 for an efficiency, $619 for a one bedroom, and $772 for a two bedroom. Where I lived is not eligible nor is anywhere that anyone I knew lived. Additionally, going to Craigslist or Zillow doesn’t make me any more confident I’d be able to get an apartment in Squirrel Hill if I were on Section 8. I’d have much better luck in my current neighborhood (Highland Park).
Under reported crime is nothing new to a city neighborhood. Talking to crime reporters and talking to city cops will net you the real answers.
Because I have talked to several people near that rehab facility as well as several employees of the businesses along forbes/murray as well as patrons of the JCC.
Most section 8 apts aren’t on zillow or craigslist either. They go by word of mouth and by signs typically.
[QUOTE=Mithras;16501084 As far as the subjective experience of it getting more “hood” at certain times of the day than it used to, if I’m properly understanding your meaning I have not noticed that nor would I particularly care if I had.[/QUOTE]
Well, that’s where we fundamentally differ.
So either crime is going up in the neighborhood but it is randomly under reported by a larger and larger amount each year or, as the report put together by the city and police department (from crimes reported to the same cops who are apparently claiming the crime rate is rapidly rising) indicates, crime is about the same from year to year. A call to authority doesn’t, in my mind, make the former come close to approaching the likelihood of the latter.
Being in the same area as someone doesn’t give you the power to distinguish their Section 8 status. It’s much more common for people to assume another’s lot in life than to actually know what’s going on.
The problem (depending on your perspective, I guess) with Pittsburgh with regards to Section 8, generally, is that the city makes up a small part of the county and Section 8 fair-market limits are done on a county level. The less expensive areas of the county make the limits within the more expensive city relatively tough to stay under. That is why I pointed to Craigslist and Zillow as a guide to the difficulty or ease of using Section 8 in an area.
The point of looking at what’s listed on the web wasn’t to find specific Section 8 housing. It was to get an idea of the price range of housing in the neighborhood. When I was unable to find a single place listed that would fall into the fair-market housing limits, I figured that was a good sign that the neighborhood wasn’t seeing a dramatic influx of individuals on Section 8. If you are less specific in a search on those sites and specify Pittsburgh only, you will find many places to live that fall under the limits (many of which, as makes sense given the above, are actually in areas like Penn Hills or McKeesport).
In addition to the maximum monthly rent limit, HUD requires an intense and thorough inspection which must be scheduled weeks ahead of time. Many units fail their first inspection and the landlord then has the option to either fix the problems or go with a non-Section 8 tenant. If they decide to pursue Section 8, the process is likely to take 4-6 weeks. There are occasions, however, when the landlord addresses all the issues raised during an inspection and is still not able to receive HUD approval. Also, they are not compensated for the rent lost during this process.
So why, in a neighborhood with a high demand for residency which will likely see more than one applicant for a unit and quick turnover of available rentals, would a landlord limit himself to rental amounts dictated by HUD and be held to strict inspection standards when he can quickly rent an apartment at or above the established fair-market values? To suggest that landlords in the neighborhood are doing so en-mass strains credibility.
And anyway, what is wrong with people who are on Section 8? Poverty isn’t a synonym for violent or lazy.