Yeah - this thread will stay on the first page for about an hour…
…but I don’t care. I am too pumped. I just got a “Lawsuit” Ibanez ES 335-style guitar, with a smaller body. Ebony fingerboard, hot pickups, amazing, fast neck - an all around a great player. I am so psyched.
What is a “Lawsuit” Ibanez? Basically, Ibanez was making Gibson copies from about the late 1970’s until about '83 or so, that were better than was Gibson was making (at the time, Gibson was owned by the Norlin Corporation and quality had tanked - that is one big reason that the market for vintage Gibsons started to take off back in the early ‘80’s - finding a well-made new Gibson at the time was rare, whereas the older instruments were of consistently higher quality). Anyway, Ibanez’ Japanese-made copies were really well made and sold well - so much so that Gibson either sued or at least threatened to sue and Ibanez had to change their designs. Then, when the 80’s Japanese economy took off (seems like eons ago), they could no longer afford to manufacture the guitars in Japan so they moved to Korea, where they are okay, but not of the same quality.
I have a Gibson ES 335 - a beautiful '84 Custom Shop that I have had for about a year. And you know what? I never play it - it is too amazing and beautiful and I am too hard on my guitars. I am afraid I will hurt it. So it sat there and I felt awful. So, I did some research, found an '81 Ibanez with a smaller body, got it for less than a third of the price of the Gibson, and I love it. I play it to death and can tell it is as well made as my Gibson, but I have no second thoughts playing the Ibanez.
I need to sell the Gibson, which will be hard, but I would rather have guitars that I play a ton of than beautiful players that I never freakin’ play.
Neat. This helps explain something I saw back around 1980 or so. I was a handsome young teen in those days, and I was down in Baton Rouge.
Now there’s a famous blues bar there, Tabby’s I think. I made my way to it and had a great time listening to some good ole authentic blues. I was young, so a little nervous being the only white guy in the joint (later I learned that music is possibly the greatest tool in the world for bridging the gaps between the races).
During a break I struck up a conversation with the club’s name sake about his guitar. At the time I was playing Rickenbacker and Ibanez basses (hadn’t started on 6 strings much yet), but I was shocked to see that this old black man who was at least regionally very well known, was playing not the 335 I assumed it was, but an Ibanez !
His comment, as I remember it was, “this baby is just the sweetest thing I’ve played”. No he didn’t let me fondle it hehe :).
I now own an official overseas 335 copy, the Epiphone Sheraton. For a guitar I paid about $400 for it has a wonderfully playable fretboard, nice tone, and it weighs about 2/3rds of the 335s I’ve picked up. Says Gibson on the nut cover… oh well, it’s good enough for me.
Wordman, congrats on your find. I guess ole Tabby knew what he was talkin about back in the day.
Skillet38 - thanks for the story about New Orleans - yep, sounds like a Lawsuit Ibanez to me.
As for your guitar - “oh well, it’s good enough for me” is the whole point - there are a lot of great guitars that play as well or better than Gibbies for much less money - the trick is to do your research - both in terms of identifying makes and models that have strong reputations, then finding a specific one that plays well. Epiphones have the reputation of varying in quality, but if you find a good one, they are supposed to be quite good and rival their big brother Gibsons. Sounds like you found one of those. The trick is that you have to play a bunch to weed out the poor ones…
That is why I focused on getting a Lawsuiter - they have the reputation of being very, very well made. The one I got is super well-put-together. When I got my Gibson, I must’ve played 50-60 new and used 335’s and when I got to mine, it stood out clearly as a superior guitar in terms of fit, finish and feel. It’s like, even if you don’t know wine all that well, sometimes when you sip a super-good wine, you can immediately realize “Oh - I get it - there is a difference”. Playing all those 335’s was very educational to me - I played a few early '60’s models, some new Custom Shoppers (for $3,500 - I don’t think so) and a bunch of '80’s and '90’s guitars. The one I got just stood out.
That’s the good news - the bad news is that I just can beat the crap out of it, the way I do my Strat or this new Ibanez. I don’t know why - maybe because it has a bigger body, and I want to play more mature music on it; maybe because it has this awesome Vintage Sunburst finish like a piece of beautiful antique furniture and I don’t want to sweat all over it - I dunno. But I do know that if I am not going to be comfortable with it and instead tippy-toe around it, then even though it is one of the best 335’s I have ever played, it just isn’t right for me. Kinda like hooking up with a delicate supermodel or something - looks amazing on my arm, but what about the monkey sex and hanging out Sunday mornings and reading the paper with jazz on? If ya can’t do those, why have the honey on your arm in the first place?
That’s why I am going to find this special 335 a new home - someone will treat her they way she needs to be treated. I am too…downscale or something…
A dear friend of mine who owns a recording studio chooses to specialise in radio and TV jingles etc. He owns one of those famous “lawsuit” Ibanez ES335’s and we’ve both had a long, long competitive banter thing over the years regarding the quality of our various arsenal of guitars.
We’ve both owned classic vintage Fender’s and Gibsons for at least 20 years, but that Ibanez was the one that my friend used to consistently bring out to rub my nose into some Gibson humble pie.
It took me a long time, but I eventually found a 1968 Cherry Red Gibson ES335 with a stop bar and block inlays - identical in every respect to Eric Clapton’s famous “Cream” guitar.
Well, when I took it around to my friend’s studio along with a 1967 VOX AC30, begrudgingly, he had to concede he was finally listening to an ES335 which was better in tone and chunkiness than his Ibanez. But wow, I had to search far and wide. And also, it was unbelievably expensive. By the time it arrived from California down here in Australia, it had cost me $4,200 AUS - so the essence of the story is that the famous “lawsuit” Ibanez is indeed a fantastic guitar with remarkable build quality and value for money.
Still, it has to be said, that my pristine 1968 Gibson is simply wonderful and it turns heads with awesome drool factor - arguably the one factor where the Ibanez falls short I suspect.
If you’d like to hear the Gibson through that AC30 I mentioned, here’s a little 1 minute showoff mp3…
Nice tone, Boo Boo Foo - thanks for sharing. That AC30 sounds great. I have a MESA/Boogie Studio Caliber with EL84’s that sounds similarly crunchy…
As for your 335 story, I hear you. The thing with Gibsons is that they are inconsistent - you can find a bunch that are 7’s or 8’s but every now and then, find a 10. Guitars like Ibanez’ are much more like to be of a higher consistent quality, but you may not find a magic one.
