I don’t know if I buy this distinction. There was a perception that Flynn talking about sanctions to the Russian ambassador was embarrassing to the administration, so lying about it seems very much in line with other lies to “support the administration”. If anything this lie was much harder to disprove than other much more flagrant lies. I can see why Pence was upset but at the same time Trump wouldn’t mind if Pence’s credibility was damaged because that would make him less of a threat to him.
This sacking makes Trump look weak which seems a bigger problem for him than the original lie. His enemies have scented blood and will be encouraged to move in for the kill. His staff will be discouraged and wonder if they are next. Trump is fairly shrewd about such things so I assume he had some good reason to sack Flynn but I don’t really see it in the stuff that been reported so far.
Anyone else think what we’re seeing right now is a cat and mouse game?
Someone is sitting on top of a lot of damning intelligence–intercepted calls, wiretaps, leaks from trusted sources collected over several weeks–and this someone knows exactly what the truth is. In the time between Flynn’s Russian calls and his resignation, all kinds of incriminating things likely have been communicated from him to Trump and vice versa…and the person (or persons) would know all of this too. Okay, so now we’re watching the mice lie and try to obfuscate their way out of trouble, but since the truth is actually a known thing, it is just ineffectual blather that only pacifies Trump supporters and sympathizers.
Eventually the cat in this game is going to pounce, and they will be using the mice’s own lies to ensnare them.
I have to laugh at some of the speculation downplaying what these shenanigans portend. If this was just about Flynn lying to Pence, dude would still be working; Trump could care less about Pence or honesty. His removal is 45’s incompetent attempt to distance himself from a scandal bigger than anything the country has ever seen.
I agree. And that is why Trump is currently foaming at the mouth trying to change the topic away from the lies and the meetings with Russians, and protecting Flynn for weeks… And toward the Most. Important. Thing. … Which is to expose the person who has been telling the truth and making Trump look bad.
Fuck the country. Fuck national security. Fuck the truth. Trump’s only focus right now is to stop the person who is telling the country the truth. Before more damaging stuff comes out.
Your first sentence is a wonder. Are you saying he builds the properties, and then sells them, but doesn’t borrow the money to build them in the first place? Or what, perzackly?
Of course he borrows money to build. All builders do. The claim was that he borrowed money from Russian banks. Where is any indication that that happened? There is a lot of evidence that there were high-value Russian buyers of Trump properties. There is nothing that would point to any Russian lenders. Maybe you have a cite?
Senators Graham and Corker are calling for an investigation into Trump’s contacts with Russia prior to the election. Graham also mentions investigating the leaks. I think I heard Sen. Blunt on the radio this morning also calling for an investigation. Two or three prominent Republican Senators wanting to investigate Trump… this could be a good sign.
In another thread, I said Trump wasn’t going to be impeached, ever. I said he’d be with us for four painful years. But, I’ve been wrong about almost everything for the past 18 months (I did call Flynn’s ouster a few hours before it happened). I hope I was wrong about Trump’s ability to stay in office. Dare I dream? Pence 2017!
Google “Trump borrowing money Russia”. “Indications” you want, you will get. You are, of course, free to dismiss them out of hand, or contradict them with brilliant citation. Please proceed.
Impeach? No, much easier. A word in his shell like ear, a total and thorough investigation into his holdings. The hint, the suggestion that anything found to be less than totally kosher will be subject to draconian penalties, liens, forfeitures of assets. Maybe he could end up broke, living under a golden bridge?
Trump is his money. Without it, he is but a hole wrapped in skin. Suggest that if he quietly resigns, all of that threat will go away. Make sure his kids know. Hit him where he lives.
I don’t understand the topic well at all, but AIUI, the 2014 sanctions on Russia put a lot of restrictions on the ability of Americans to get loans from American or EU banks for projects in Russia. This would increase the likelihood that Trump is in hock to Russian banks. I may well be wrong about that, and I’d welcome correction if so.
I think you’re right, and for some reason, the mouse seems to be trying to provoke the cat.
Flynn tried to claim that the calls didn’t touch on sanctions, until the fact that those calls, made by a private citizen on a personal or campaign device, were recorded and transcribed. How inconvenient.
Is Trump unable to grasp that there may be transcriptions of every phone call he has made over the past few years?
I wonder who owns the 19.5% stake in the Russian oil company Rosneft? We’ll never know, since the shell company in the Caymans won’t be releasing ownership information anytime soon.
Oh, I think he knows. It’s just that his strategy for dealing with untoward events is the same as he’s always used; Bully people, call them names, threaten to sue, put them on the defensive.
Trouble is, he is now trying this with all of the media, as well as all of the US intelligence agencies.
Yes. I can come up with plenty of valid reasons (not all of which I agree with) why Republicans are acting the way they are. Don’t assign hatred and villainy to everybody who disagrees with you; that path leads to accusations of porn rings out of pizza parlors.