What is the probability that Trump is a traitor?

The BBQ Pit
1

I normally have nothing but disdain for conspiracy theories and those who embrace them based on “gut-feelings” and scant or no evidence.

Why? Because people are bad at keeping secrets. (score settling, arrogance, stupidity, pillow talk, the list is endless) so that even without the crushing amount of evidence supporting things such as the moon landing happening, 9/11 being the work of terrorists, it is simply astronomically unlikely that enough people would go along such things.

This being the SDMB, I assume that 99% of you agree with the above.

With this preamble out of the way, there actually is mounting and plausible evidence of Trump being beholden to Putin.

  • Putin supported his presidency very early on.

  • Trump did travel to Russia and stayed in Hotel suites that could very likely have been bugged.

  • Trump is known to dally around with women who are not his wives.

  • Trump was accused of offering money ($10k) to a porn actress to have sex with him.

  • Trump was repeatedly accused of offering “perks” to women when trying to sleep with them

  • Trump had known irrational animosity and envy for the Obamas. (birther thing, aping their inauguration cake come to mind).

  • Trump likes slavic women.

  • The report on his golden shower thing comes from a respected ex-intelligence officer

  • The report on his golden shower thing was not timed to help with the election, which gives it more credence.

  • The report lines up with everything I just mentioned. Just weird enough to be true. If I were making something like that up, I wouldn’t include any golden shower reference. It’s enough to have video of him having sex with prostitutes.

  • Trump’s reaction to it (calling it “fake news”) is exactly his modus operandi when he’s lying. (this is flimsy though because of his personality, another president would have just ignored the whole thing).

*Trump kept praising putin as a candidate, which is something no candidate ever does this since russians/iranians/chinese can’t vote. The same thing goes in other countries. Anti-US rhetoric in Iran or wherever else is par for the course during elections. Then after the election, everybody softens up,

  • Despite all these damaging rumors, Trump is still praising putin, talking about suspending sanctions (under the bullshit guise of anti-terror cooperation) when the politically sane thing to do would be to be “strong” on Russia. Doesn’t seem to make sense. He has nothing to gain by lifting sanctions. (unlike, say, anti-abortion policies which are at least popular with his base, if unpopular with most of the electorate).

Now All of this was known to me and I still didn’t think it was enough evidence. I don’t subscribe to the old “where there is smoke, there is fire” adage. Sometimes, the smoke is manufactured bullshit (IE: benghazi, emails).

But now, the purges at the FSB appear to be a response to the report. Why else would they happen if the report was fake and nobody leaked real intel? (could be other reasons, of course, but the timing is certainly suspicious)

Finally, actual investigations have been opened on his potential as a compromised russian asset, by actual U.S agencies…this is unprecedented AFAIK.

In other words, to come back full circle to my initial disclaimer. THIS is what I think it would look like if a real conspiracy existed. lots of leaks and corroborating circumstantial evidence.

I hate to say it but I’m starting to wonder if this could be actually, possibly be true. As in, a 10% chance, which may sound small but is actually enormous for something so…so…horrifying.

So, I ask you, what is the probability of this craziness being true, given all this circumstantial evidence?

For reference I believe there is basically 0% chance of the election having been hacked (as in vote tallies) and there is a 90%+ chance of Russia being behind the Podesta emails being leaked to Wikileaks.

What do you guys think?

2

As I mentioned in another thread, the reasons people generally betray their country are as follows:

Money
Ideology
Compromise
Ego

Any and all of these could apply to Trump. Doesn’t necessarily mean he has done so but it certainly means it’s worth checking into.

3

First define “traitor”.

The kind of personality traits on display don’t sit very well with the notion of a surreptitious conspirator, or indeed someone that capable of any planned programme of deception. The man is a WYSIWYG walking collection of brainfarts. That Putin is hoping to manipulate him by flattery is hardly a conspiratorial secret either - he’s just a “useful idiot”, who can be abandoned and undermined if ever Putin ever decides he’s more of a liability than an asset.

4

I think there is more to this story than has come out so far, and as time goes by additional information will come out that will not cast Trump in a good light.

5

The possibility, or rather probabilty, does not exist outside liberal heads. They will spend the next four, or even eight, years clutching at every straw to blacken President Trump. It won’t work, even with the media aiding and abetting them.

6

“No puppet, no puppet. You’re the puppet!”

It would take several pages to list all the Trump-Russian connections that feed into this CT, including past comments going back to 2000, his inner circle, real estate connections, or how he’s incapable of criticizing Russia or Putin. I can think of explanations for his behavior, but it’s actually more flattering if he’s beholden to Russian banks or if Putin has a video on him instead of, say, Trump being a Captain Planet villain who wants to increase GW to melt the arctic ice to get at the oil, or if he thinks Russia and America should join together in white brotherhood and destroy European liberalism, or if he’s so easily manipulated that he just seems like a Russian asset. Russia has a GDP of around Italy’s, so cozying up to them and pushing Europe away is an odd choice.

Given Trump’s ego, I can see him being innocent but behaving this way out of spite. You’d think a normal person in this situation would criticize Russia, or maybe Trump could make up one of his cute dismissive nicknames for Putin. “Folks, Russia is a disaster. So many alcoholics and burn outs. SAD!” Even if he’s a puppet you’d think that would be a good idea, just for PR purposes, his Russian handlers would understand. But Trump doesn’t like being told what to do, so this could be his way of showing defiance against his critics.

7

What could blacken President Trump any further than his biography so far? What noble or admirable thing has he ever done?

8

Trump is a unthinking blowhard with little interest outside of his own sense of self importance but he’s not some sort of manchurian candidate. He simply sees America’s interests as his own. Unfortunately his own interests seem to be a desire to be feared, admired and obeyed. That those align with autocrats, kleptocrats and thugs shouldn’t surprise anyone at this point.

9

Of course Trump is beholden to Putin-- I didn’t realize there was even any dispute on that subject. But that doesn’t meet the definition of “treason”.

10

You mentioned mounting and plausible evidence. Could you mention some of it? TIA.

Regards,
Shodan

11

Since you ask, you might consider his TV series, The Apprentice. He has provided pleasure and amusement to millions and opportunities to those who might otherwise have not had them.

12

I think you don’t like Trump. Get back to us when you have actual evidence.

13

Not enough evidence for a real debate, here. Off to the Pit.

14

Treason is so narrowly defined in the US that’s it’s highly unlikely that he’s a traitor in that sense. A person can betray the nation in all sorts of ways and not by the law be a “traitor”.

He and the Republicans in general are certainly morally treasonous, though.

15

I would still see it as treason, regardless of the specific reason. AND, I have very serious misgivings of my own.

“That Putin is hoping to manipulate him by flattery is hardly a conspiratorial secret either …” is exactly how you manipulate someone whos is a narcissist.

Then there are all the questionable business ties that he steadfastly refuses to divest - in direct violation of the Emoluments laws.

And finally the Piss Tapes that supposedly exist.

It’s already been established, and has been verified by Russians, that there was a “fake news” flood. And it wasn’t to help Clinton.

It’s already been established that the Russians were hacking into servers, but they only released things that might be spun to hurt Clinton (spin, half truth and outright lies). But nothing detrimental to Trump was “released”.

Trump claimed NATO was obsolete, and that member nations would have to “pay up or else” (Putin wants NATO gone).

Now his new ambassador is trying to run roughshod over the UN. One more thing that might be inconvenient for Putin.

“That Exxon CEO” who has big financial ties to Russia is part of Trump’s inner circle.

etc etc etc etc etc etc.
There are just TOO MANY things.

16

We don’t have to blacken his name, he is doing it for us. We just present what he is doing, day after day after day.

17

List them… for all the good it will do.

18

Thank-you. I’ll enjoy a rare opportunity to agree with you. :slight_smile:

I think the old saying apt: Never attribute malice to that which can simply be attributed to incompetence. (or however that saying goes)

19

Merriam Webster definition:Definition of traitor
1: one who betrays another’s trust or is false to an obligation or duty
2: one who commits treason

Constitutional definition:
18 US Code: Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

The Merriam Webster definition is the one most people usually mean when they talk about traitors.

So, the word can be used.

20

Trump isn’t a traitor. (At least not intentionally.) He’s mentally ill.