I have about 45 minutes in the car each way, and I have two kids (4 and 2 years) with me during it. It’s sort of a waste of time. I figure, maybe we can make some headway into learning a language. I also figure, I can start easy with Spanish, which I have at least some working ability in (my kids have none, and part of the point would be to get them started as well).
I’ve tried googling around, but this seems one of those topics that is rife with snakeoil, so I figured I’d come here and ask if anyone has had good experiences with any systems (that could be used in a car, so no writing or anything).
It’s not so much snake oil as that languages are the intellectual verison of diets. Substitute “lose weight and exercise” with “actually work at it,” and there you go. So there will be plenty of options to choose from—just avoid the ones that stress how easy it’s going to be, and how there’s no grammar, and you’ll be fine.
There’s a lot of kid-friendly Spanish stuff. I used to just put on the Spanish news station, but that may not be an option in your area.
Thanks. I know to avoid anything that tells me that I’m going to be fluent in 30 days! There are the big guys in this field like Rosetta stone and Pimsleur, and I’m just wondering if, assuming that one listens and works at it, these actually work. Or is it all just a waste of time?
They actually work. The trouble is, it’s easy to make them not work, especially if you’re doing something like driving + managing kids.* It’s easy to tune out a language you don’t speak. If you get a system that wants you to respond, even if it’s just repeating what they say, and you actually do it, it should work pretty well, especially if you are putting a little time in every day.
*Edit: because these are complex tasks requiring active mental engagement.
If you are interested in doing some reinforcement in addition to the commute I recommend duolingo. They have apps for Apple and Android and you can go through some exercises when waiting in lines or use the website when you are at home with a bit more free time. Best of all, it is free!
I second the endorsement for Duolingo and it’s fun! Though if the kids don’t read yet it won’t be good for them.
Check out Coffee Break Spanish. Which I started listening to on my commute. It’s more European Spanish pronunciation than Latin American but he does explain the differences between the two and give examples of cases where the Spain version is X but the Latin Americans would say Y. The lessons are short, 15 Minutes ( the length of a coffee break) so you could listen to several on your commute. I load them on to my I-Phone and play them that way.
Plus the host has a cute Scottish accent which I enjoy.
This is exactly what I was going to say. I did this with Mandarin a while back (Pimsleur, specifically), and had mixed results. I often had problems with my attention being drawn elsewhere, as Dr. Drake points out, and I didn’t even have kids in the car. The issue is that the lessons usually aren’t just a list of discrete words; throughout the lesson, you’re putting everything together, and subsequent lessons build on previous ones. So if you miss one or two words, you can get lost pretty quickly. I’d be driving along, doing fine, and then I’d have to pay attention to traffic for ten seconds, and suddenly, they’d be using a word and I’d have no idea what it means, which I found very frustrating. Also, it was surprisingly difficult to understand how to pronounce words when I couldn’t see the speaker. For example, sounds like “m” and “n” were frequently difficult to distinguish, not to mention the sounds that aren’t used in English. So I often found myself having to go back and replay a section two or three times, which is annoying and not particularly safe while driving.
What made it most effective for me was a combination of things: I sometimes did an initial listening of a lesson at home, when I could really concentrate and was free to repeat sections as needed. After I was confident I was saying things correctly, I’d listen again in the car, over and over, to practice the pronunciation and reinforce the meaning. Also, once you get the hang of the pronunciation, it’s not hard to blow through the lessons pretty quickly, and then get to the end and find you’ve forgotten everything. So I didn’t just do the lessons in order; periodically, I’d go back and review earlier lessons to test myself. And I augmented my study in other ways: I took a class, studied on the internet, watched videos, and so on. Bottom line, it was hard, but definitely effective if you really do the work.
Sure. We’d be in the car, so I have no one who will think I’m particularly crazy.
We did the first Pimsleur free download this morning, and it was a bit basic for me, but that’s probably a good thing. I’m not completely new to Spanish, but I’d rather start slow anyway. And my 2 year old got a kick out of saying “hablo” over and over.
Great points. Learning a language takes a lot of work. Pick a language that motivates you and/or where you will have opportunities to practice it, preferably both. Like Japanese Anime? Learn Japanese! The fun you’ll have watching anime in the original language will itself be additional practice for you. Are you a follower of a religion that includes source materials or rituals in another language? Study that one! Some faiths have inexpensive materials for learning the language or go out of their way to help people learn it. Interested in seeing the world? Why not study the language of that place you’ve always wanted to go? Your trip will be that much more meaningful.
I have worked my way through the whole of Pimsleur German, and in hindsight yes, I do consider it a waste of time. I have also spent quite a bit of time with Michel Thomas and Assimil. Thomas was the worst, Assimil the best, if only because the dialogue was at least more entertaining than the desperately dull Pimsleur. But I have come to the conclusion that you cannot learn very much through these methods. There is just not enough language in them. Learning a language takes hundreds, perhaps thousands of hours of practice, there’s no way round it.
Yes, true, but I think you can do the foundation part relatively quickly – a couple of weeks – and then in my view it is better to dive in with the real language rather than persisting with introductory stuff. I spent maybe two or three months listening to Pimsleur during my commute. At the end of it I was merely able to speak Pimsleur’s tiny subset of German, and hesitatingly at that, rather than anything useful beyond “I have a reservation” and “two glasses of wine please”.
There are free podcasts out there made by actual Germans, aimed at non-native speakers - real German language on real subjects, spoken slowly and clearly. I feel that they are more valuable than artificial learning material of the “Herr Schmidt takes his car to the garage” variety.
Yeah, this was another issue I had with Pimsleur, though I’m not sure how much of a problem it would be in Spanish vs. Mandarin. I think that Pimsleur’s style is generally formal speech appropriate for travelers and business, and they tend to avoid anything overly familiar. For instance, if I want to offer someone something, say, tea, Pimsleur taught me to say, “Ni xiang he yidiar cha ma?” or “Would you like to drink some tea?” But I learned from my inlaws that it’s much more common to just say, “Yao bu yao cha?” or “Want tea?” (literally “Want/not want tea?”). The Pimsleur phrase is very proper, polite, and formal, but almost comically so, if you’re talking to friends and family. In certain contexts, it could even be off-putting, as it might seem that you’re being cold or stand-offish. And it turns out that the “something/not something” construction is used in many other ways. “Hao bu hao?” = “[Is that] okay?”, “Hao bu hao chi” = “How does it taste?”, “You mei you [thing]?” = “Do you have [thing]?”, “Shi bu shi?” = “Is it or isn’t it? (or “Are you or aren’t you”, “Is she or isn’t she?” etc.)” and so on. So in my opinion, that would have been a much more useful phrase to learn.
And regarding robert_columbia’s comment about finding something that motivates you to learn: our three-year-old absolutely loves shows like “Ni Hao Kai Lan”, and for Spanish, “Go, Diego, Go!” (he’s the cousin of “Dora The Explorer”, with a much more entertaining and educational show). The shows only teach a few words here and there, but they’re fantastic for piquing interest in the language. Now our kid is constantly asking us “How do you say X in Chinese? And how do you say it in Spanish?” I highly recommend them, in addition to other learning methods.
I absolutely agree. This is part of the reason I compare language-learning to fad dieting. I have found many, many people would rather stick with the introductory stuff for years, literally listening to the same set of things over and over but making no real progress. They want to be learning a language rather than to learn a language, if that makes sense.