Learn about what you are talking about before you shoot your mouth off

[dropzone]

Yes, I know I’m a fine one to find that particular mote in someones eye. Deal with it.

In its over-the air broadcasts WYCC, Channel 20-Chicago, added to its PBS and MHz channels a third, FNX - First Nations Experience, a primarily-Canadian channel devoted to programming about the aboriginal peoples of the Americas. An interesting market that in the Chicago area is fairly small, especially as the cultures represented are mostly those of Canada (often shared with the northern US) and not those of the southern US, Mexico, and Central and South America, who make up the lion’s share of Chicago’s Native Americans. This is cool because we have lots of channels already for the majority groups, if they speak Spanish, and a few more for Chinese, Poles, and Koreans. Cooler, because most of FNX’s programming is in English. But less cool, because most of the programming is, like much of Canadian TV, earnestly tedious. Today I watched part of a craft show in which a middle-aged woman was painting on “eagle” feathers (probably turkey but I missed the beginning) for some, possibly Martha Stewartesque, reason. (You know that schmatzy, fake-Indian “art” from the Eighties? That sort of shit, only more Canadian.)

The show ended and I watched the promos that followed. One used stock footage of Teotihuacan, Chichen Itza, and Cahokia and spoke admiringly of how the native people who built those cities lived in harmony with the land.

:dubious:

Okay, the first two fell for other reasons, but Cahokia apparently fell apart because of deforestation, which left no nearby forests to support game animals (they had no large domestic stock) or provide wood for building and burning, and flooding, caused by erosion because of deforestation, rerouting waterways, and building on a god-damned floodplain. “Harmony with the land,” my ass! Just feel-good, hippie bullshit.

Then on one or the other of the America’s Test Kitchen programs they made Jamaican Jerk Chicken. The host, who in a fit of bad taste had appeared earlier dressed like Bob Marley, stated that Marley probably ate a lot of Jerk Chicken.

:dubious:

No, Chris Kimball, you are the jerk. Bob Marley was a Rastafarian vegetarian.

More examples of people who said something stupid that they could have avoided with five minutes on Wikipedia?

[Boyo_Jim]

If the Cahokia deforested their lands and destroyed their home and left, it was all in the plans of the Great Spirit, and in complete harmony with … something, dammit! Possibly the Everly Brothers!

[Monty]

Was Marley a life-long vegetarian? I mean, was he reared in a vegetarian household or did he come to it later in life? Did he abandon vegetarianism before his death?

I did find this bit on the Wiki interesting:

Shortly before his death, Marley was baptised into Christianity by Archbishop Abuna Yesehaq of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Kingston, Jamaica, on 4 November 1980.

[Boyo_Jim]

…Shortly before his death, Marley was baptised into Christianity by Archbishop Abuna Yesehaq of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Kingston, Jamaica, on 4 November 1980…

So we know he ate at least a chunk o’ Jesus!

[Broomstick]

I just want to point out that there is a competing theory on the disappearance of the Cahokia culture, and that is disease. European diseases moved in advance of the Europeans themselves, and given that the Cahokia culture featured dense populations if measles or, even worse, smallpox got loose among them it could have easily wiped out a majority of their people and brought their civilization to an end.

Even so - I agree, this “lived in harmony with the land” this is overemphasized quite a bit. And even if the people of Teotihuacan lived in harmony with “the land” (which was actually a swamp gradually filled in over generations of low tech geo-engineering) they certainly did not live in harmony with their neighbors.

[fachverwirrt]

I’d like to point out that “the Cahokia” were a minor tribe in the Illini Confederation, and have no relationship with the “Cahokia Mounds” site, the cultural and population center of the Mississippian culture, which is what people are actually talking about.

Carry on.

[buddha_david]

@Broomstick

Even so - I agree, this “lived in harmony with the land” this is overemphasized quite a bit. And even if the people of Teotihuacan lived in harmony with “the land” (which was actually a swamp gradually filled in over generations of low tech geo-engineering) they certainly did not live in harmony with their neighbors.

Hasn’t it been established, at least with the Mayans, that their civilization collapsed due to massive deforestation?

[Loach]

It’s my god given right to talk about whatever I want and you can’t stop me!

What were we talking about again?

[Lemur866]

It certainly does grate to hear this constant babble about how certain peoples “lived in harmony”. I mean, compared to who? I’m sure the farmers who were part of the mound builder culture lived in harmony with the land. You know, just like subsistence farmers all over the world. The farmers back in Europe and China and India were living in harmony with the land too. Plant the wrong seeds at the wrong time, and you fucking die, that’ll teach you not to live in harmony with the land.

[Nzinga_Seated]

@Monty

Was Marley a life-long vegetarian? I mean, was he reared in a vegetarian household or did he come to it later in life? Did he abandon vegetarianism before his death?

I did find this bit on the Wiki interesting:

Wow! I have to research this. He CONVERTED FROM RASTARIANISM???

[Cat_Whisperer]

@Lemur866

It certainly does grate to hear this constant babble about how certain peoples “lived in harmony”. I mean, compared to who? I’m sure the farmers who were part of the mound builder culture lived in harmony with the land. You know, just like subsistence farmers all over the world. The farmers back in Europe and China and India were living in harmony with the land too. Plant the wrong seeds at the wrong time, and you fucking die, that’ll teach you not to live in harmony with the land.

I live in harmony with my land - why doesn’t anyone idolize me?

[Alessan]

@Lemur866

It certainly does grate to hear this constant babble about how certain peoples “lived in harmony”. I mean, compared to who? I’m sure the farmers who were part of the mound builder culture lived in harmony with the land. You know, just like subsistence farmers all over the world. The farmers back in Europe and China and India were living in harmony with the land too. Plant the wrong seeds at the wrong time, and you fucking die, that’ll teach you not to live in harmony with the land.

In my experience, no-one hates nature more than farmers. If they could grow their crops in factories, they would.

[Balance]

@Alessan

In my experience, no-one hates nature more than farmers.

To hear the farmers tell it, it’s mutual.

[Miller]

What bothers me are people who go on and on about how Indians “used every part of the buffalo,” and then refuse to eat processed meats.

[August_West]

@Miller

What bothers me are people who go on and on about how Indians “used every part of the buffalo,” and then refuse to eat processed meats.

To be fair, the Indians didn’t grind them up and mix in olives

[digs]

@August_West

To be fair, the Indians didn’t grind them up and mix in olives

Mmmm… Pimento Buff-a-Loaf*™ … *

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[JRDelirious]

There’s “living in harmony with nature” because that’s what you want, and then there’s because that’s what you can’t help. But yes, the American natives were perfectly able and willing to do some damage to their environment if it suited them.

@Nzinga_Seated

Wow! I have to research this. He CONVERTED FROM RASTARIANISM???

He was baptized in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which was Haile Selassie’s own faith and official church – Rastafarians believe themselves in direct spiritual lineage with Judaism and Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity, so it would not be an inconsistent action.

[cochrane]

Shortly before his death, Marley was baptised into Christianity by Archbishop Abuna Yesehaq of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church in Kingston, Jamaica, on 4 November 1980.

@Boyo_Jim

So we know he ate at least a chunk o’ Jesus!

But he did not eat the deputy.

[Nzinga_Seated]

@JRDelirious

There’s “living in harmony with nature” because that’s what you want, and then there’s because that’s what you can’t help. But yes, the American natives were perfectly able and willing to do some damage to their environment if it suited them.

He was baptized in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which was Haile Selassie’s own faith and official church – Rastafarians believe themselves in direct spiritual lineage with Judaism and Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity, so it would not be an inconsistent action.

Oh. Yeah. Makes sense.

[Chefguy]

@JRDelirious

There’s “living in harmony with nature” because that’s what you want, and then there’s because that’s what you can’t help. But yes, the American natives were perfectly able and willing to do some damage to their environment if it suited them.

He was baptized in the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, which was Haile Selassie’s own faith and official church – Rastafarians believe themselves in direct spiritual lineage with Judaism and Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity, so it would not be an inconsistent action.

Jacob Marley was Rasta?! Did Scrooge know?