I’m studying via Rosetta, which doesn’t translate, (something I think is actually fantastic generally, makes perfect sense no wonder it’s so successful) and I was trying to figure out what “hay” meant. “hay un celular” AND “hay seis huevos”?? I finally broke down and looked it up and the translation was “there is a cel” and “there are six eggs” leaving me kinda stumped as to the actual meaning of “hay” at all… is it “there” is it “to be”? Is it some special word that combines both?
Confoozed.
The verb “to be” is interesting in Spanish. There is “ser” for identity (Yo soy randomface), for some times/places (La tienda es en el centro), or for possession (El libro es de randomface). Estar is for emotions, locations, and more temporary states. It was explained to us that if a ser is more of a form of is for video (multiple frames) versus “estar” for a picture (snapshot). I liked to think of it as “ser” being used for character attributes and “estar” for status attributes (I link things to video games). “Haber” is a verb that in a present tense impersonal placement takes the form “hay”. It takes on other odd uses for other tenses. I’m not sure why it works like this. “Hay libros aqui” (there are books here) can also be done as “Los libros estan aqui” (The books are here).
It’s a form of haber, and can sometimes mean “there is” or “there are”, like in your example, it can also be translated as “have” when that’s being used as an axillary verb, like “Han salido.” i.e, “They have left”.
Here’s more on the use of “hay” to indicate there is or there are.
As has been said, haber is an unusual verb, usually used as an auxiliary meaning “have,” but having a special use in the third person as above.
I guess you’re missing the point of your method by inquiring. “Hay” neither means “there” nor “is”. It means “there is”. That’s what you’re supposed to remember. It happens to be technically a form of the verb “to have”, but it really doesn’t matter if you just want to ultimately be able to speak the language, and that’s probably in order to prevent youf current state of confusion that your method doesn’t delve into this.
And a special form of the verb haber that means to have only in the the present perfect (I have read this book before.), not the to have that means possession or compulsion (I have this book at home. or I have to go home to get that damned book.), both of which take tener in Spanish.
Quite the scold, aren’t you? I am not “missing the point” - the point is lost if I have no earthly idea what “hay” means to begin with. The only part I understood was the article and the noun. I was 100% stumped as to what “hay” was telling me and therefore, without understanding what it meant in any way at all, could never hope to be able to use it naturally.
And because I’ve spent half a century with English, it would never have dawned on me that “hay” actually says what it takes two english words to say. Now that I have learned this, it will help me puzzle things out in the future.
And she told you: it means “there is”. And that kind of sentences are one of the many impersonal constructions Spanish has, it’s a subject-less construction.
The item whose number varies in those sentences is not the subject (which is what Spanish verbs have number agreement with) but an object, so there is no variation in the number of the verb same as there wouldn’t be a variation in verb number between voy a un sitio and voy a varios sitios. In these two examples, the subject with whom the verb agrees is always yo, which is singular; in the hay impersonal forms, there is no subject.
First thing you need to do, in order to learn another language, is understand that even with languages much closer than English and Spanish word-to-word correspondence is not something you can, much less should, expect. Heck, just look at verbs: your infinitives are two words, ours are one.
“hay” can also mean “are there” as in a question.
like
“Hay douchebags aqui en este internet forum?”
“Si! Hay muchos.”
*Hay *seems similar to the French il y a, and in either case I don’t think the literal transaltion is that confusing - they’re both saying “it has six eggs” or whatever. What is this “it”, we ask? It’s a similar virtual “it” to the one that we use in English in phrases such as “it’s raining”. There is no “it”, it’s just a grammatical placeholder. Just like in the phrase “there are six eggs”, you’re not really talking about six eggs in a particular place, so there’s no “there”.
Which means you missed the point. Granted, that’s likely not your fault, as Rosetta should have taught that to you instead of assuming you’d figure it out. This is why I’m not a big fan of immersion-only teaching. I think you should be taught a few basics and only then go with immersion. Just knowing a few differences like these can really help you get grounded.
You’re not a kid and this isn’t your first language, so you’re going to start out translating in your head, as that’s how learning works. When you learn something new, it tends to be remembered in terms of something you already new. I really don’t think there’s a way around this, at least, for most people. Without a basic understanding, all that happens is that the student searches for their own connection, instead of the one they’ve been told about.
And, when you aren’t grounded, that can produce inaccurate results, like thinking that the pronoun “there” is inferred and hay is just a form of to be.
I don’t think it would help to learn any of it first, it would have nothing to stick to. Since I’m learning for pleasure and mental exercise, it’s fine the way it is and I can fill in when I need to like I did with this.
The desire to to directly translate is always what has stalled me out in language studies, so I think immersion will work well with me. Especially as I learn to break from the word-to-word habit of thinking and become more comfortable with the point: to learn a new language as a new and different way of expressing an idea vs. as a translation of the English way of expressing an idea, if that computes.
I’m surprised at how much Spanish I actually know already, and how many incredibly common and simple Spanish words I don’t know that it seems I should, living in LA for 50 years.
German has a similar deal. “Es gibt” means there is, but a word for word translation would get something more like “it gives”. Odd people, those funny talking foreigners.
It’s interesting to see how different languages express the idea of “there is” or “there are”. As said, both Spanish and French use a version of to verb “to have”, which is totally impersonal and only exists in the third person singular. (That’s the previously mentioned “hay” in Spanish – and I have no idea how to conjugate it in other tenses – and “il y a” in French. Note that French, unlike other Romance languages but like English, requires verbs, even impersonal ones, to have an apparent subject, which is what the pronoun “il” does here. e.g. English “it’s raining”, French “il pleut”, Spanish “llueve”, Italian “piove”.)
As for Italian, it expresses this idea in a manner similar to English, with a form of the verb “to be”, which exists in both the third person singular and plural, depending on whether there is one thing or there are several things. “There is” = “c’è” (= “ci è”), “there are” = “ci sono”, where “ci” is the equivalent pronoun to “there”. And I see it’s been said that German expresses this idea with the verb “to give”. I’m sure other languages do it in yet other ways.
Slight correction: clairobscur is a he.
This would be my explanation. The phrase is idiomatic; it literally means “it has” but in much the same sense as “it’s raining/snowing/sunny” – “The universe has so arranged things that rainfall/snowfall is occurring/the sun is shining unimpeded/a grouping of six eggs exists at a given time and place.” It means “there is/are” only in the abstract sense that English uses a different idiom, in which the “therre” is not the there of location but that of existence.
Instead of “It is cold today” you would say something like “Hace frio hoy” which means something closer to “it makes cold today” as a literal translation.
Same thing for French and Italian. “Il fait froid aujourd’hui” and “Fa freddo oggi.”
**Moderator Warning
**
Stoid, you’ve been here plenty long enough to know that insults are not permitted in General Questions. This is an entirely inappropriate response to clairobscur’s post. If you have a problem with someone else’s post, report it rather than retaliating. This is an official warning. Do not do this again.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator
Excuse me? On what planet is “quite the scold” an insult??? It’s a slightly different way of saying “you are scolding me”, which he was!
Since you know I’ve “been around long enough to know better”, Colibri, I think we’ve both been around long enough to know that I don’t make it a practice to insult people in ANY forum, much less GQ. I officially protest the warning as bogus.
[Moderator Note]
You also have been around long enough to know that complaints about moderation go in ATMB. Any further discussion should be taken to that forum, or you will receive another warning.
Colibri
General Questions Moderator