I’ve only been on this board for a short time. I find it totally facinating, even though I know I’m not up to snuff on debating with some of you out there. This is all pretty new to me.
My debate question is, is there a leasure class out there? I’ve seen a lot of derogatory things thrown out at the ‘rich elite’ and ‘leasure class’ on the various threads and wonder if this is the general consensus. I know, from some of your posts, that many of you make 6 figures plus (as do I). I want to ask you if you are laying about, lighting cigars with $100 bills and having servants peal grapes for you. I usually work 12 hour days myself, and rarely have the time to go exploit the masses as I should. The million dollar-a-year plus CEOs that I know usually work even longer hours…14-16 hour days are not that unusual for them in my experience. Even those evil lawyer types at my wifes law firm work 10-12 hour days, many times 6 days a week. So…where is the ‘leasure class’?
I don’t think people use “rich elite” and “leasure class” to mean the same thing. As for those lawyers, they love being evil, so long work days are fun for them!
Maybe its my misunderstanding then. It just seems like people in general, and on this board in particular, are very class oriented. And that the ‘upper classes’ are bad and evil exploiters of the down trodden masses, etc etc ad nausium.
As to the lawyers, they may be hard workers, but I’d be the LAST person to deny they are evil.
The reason for this is that there are a lot of people who’s knowledge of the “upper classes” is spotty at best. Think about it - if you are a poor working class stiff or a penniless hippy or a college student who did not come from money, your impression of the “upper class” ranges from an authoritarian boss to a person who sacrifices morality (in your mind) for wealth to the spoiled kid who drives a Mercedes to class and isn’t worried about a job after graduation.
I kind of have to laugh when I hear people talk about lawyers or bankers or MBAs as if we are all driving Porsches and $80,000 SUVs while eating Bald Eagle Cordon Bleu, watching a $10,000 plasma screen and wearing a coat made from baby seal fur. It usually takes many years of hard work to reach a level where you bringing in the big money.
But I’m with you. I can’t figure out why some people think it’s nobeler to be a penniless bum than a manager, lawyer or banker.
And I have no idea what a ‘leisure class’ is. Maybe there is a small group of people who are so wealthy that don’t have to work so they sit around all day like the Great Gatsby drinking champaign, collecting expensive cars and hanging out with millionares in tophats and monocles. The images we see on MTV portray celebrities in this way but a lot of that is just that…images. If they stop working (just like the consultants, bankers and lawyers) pretty soon they would be as broke as Hammer.
Sorry, I didn’t go to college to learn to spell…I went to party. My spelling (or lack there of) is legendary where I work, as is my lack of punctuation and grammar. Good thing I’m a decent network engineer or I’d probably be digging ditches somewhere, as my father always threatened. I appologize again.
But…anyone have any comments about the question? I’m really curious, and I know that some folks on this board feel there IS a leisure class etc. I would like their views.
(BTW, as a brief aside, is there a way to spell check in here? Or do you all write your responses using a word processor and then transfer them to here? Again, I’m kind of new to this.)
I haven’t been around here too long, but I can’t ever recall seeing a reference to the “leisure class”. Do you have a specific example (or two)? That might help get things sarted.
BTW, I think we can all agree that spelling is merely a social construct.
There is a leisure class, albeit a very small one.
I’m thinking of people like the Hilton sisters, or other heirs to fortunes or companies completely unrelated to their own efforts. These people can choose to work or not work as it suits their whims, or persue pet projects, hobbies, philanthropy, etc. Do I think that makes them morally inferior to us working joes? No. Am I occasionally blinded by envy at their posh existence? Hell yes.
Yes, there is a leisure class but they are a very tiny minority in the US population. These are people who come from families with so much money that they’ll never have to work a day in their lives. The Hilton sisters are an excellent example as are the Du Ponts. At least the Du Ponts used to be that way I can only imagine they still are.
“As democracy is practiced, the politicians are empowered by the rich elite . So, at the end of the day the leisure class is senior to and has exclusive influence over the system itself. From what I understand, democracy was devised so as to take power out of the hands of the leisure class or aristocracy or monarchy and put the power back in the hands of the people. While democracy is certainly a lesser evil, it sure seems to still have an inherent quality that those who would exploit the greater population, still have the means to do so.”
My bolding.
I’ll try and remember what other threads I’ve seen it in, but its been mentioned in different forms a few times.
MGibson, I agree that there ARE people like that out there, but is it an entire ‘class’? There can’t be that many of them I wouldn’t think, as even with a LOT of money, you can waste it away fast if you aren’t making anything. At least, from my experience, the ‘rich elite’ I know all work like dogs. Now granted, I’m not in the Hilton circles, but it seems like this has been way over blown. From what I understand, even the anti-christ, Bill Gates, works like a dog…
Well the nice thing about hte “leisure class” is that their political apathy and self centeredness generally means they have very little influence over the political system. You don’t see the Hilton Sisters or Donatella Versace pushing too many bills through congress.
Hey it sucks that the rest of us have to work while the offspring of the wealthy can go clubbing all night and buy $1000 dresses. It’s not like we are all working to support their lifestyle though.
Since you quoted me, xtisme, I’ll throw in my definition of leisure class.
That very small percantage of people born into extreme wealth and who can live a life of super-abundant luxury and leisure off interest alone.
It does not include the those making six figures annually. It includes those who can drop six figures in a casino in one night and not bat an eyelid. I would more precisely define it as, at most, the top half a percent of wealthy persons and families in the world.
Whenever I see a reference to ‘leisure class’ I think of Thorstein Veblen (whom our very own TVeblen is named after, or was it the other way around?). He wrote ‘The theory of the leisure class’ (link to electronic version. Its a sociological work in an essayistic style. I haven’t read it and do not exactly remember his central thesis, but maybe Veb will drop by and fill you in.
Or, they work for the sake of having a job. My wife went to college with a Rockefeller daughter, who became a psychiatrist. She once worked with the son of William Hewlett. The son was a systems analyst in her consulting firm.
