The American Class System

Great Debates
1

Inspired by this thread over in IMHO I got to thinking about classes in America.

It’s actually, in my view, less about family income and such than about position and slotting and employment. So instead of a lower/middle/upper class structure we have something more like this:

Working Poor - Those people working at low-wage, low-skill jobs without a lot of prospect for advancement. Probably don’t have a college degree. Waiters, retail clerks, etc.

Working Class - Those people working, sometimes for good pay, in manual or technical jobs. Mechanics, Manufacturing Jobs, etc. May or may not have college degrees.

Office Class - People working in offices at the ‘assistant’ or ‘coordinator’ level. They don’t set policy and are rarely slated for advancement into management ranks but make decent money and have good job security. Probably have degrees.

Professional Class - Doctors, Lawyers and such who have advanced degrees and are actively using them. Usually well-compensated but may have expenses due to their profession that makes their financial position less certain than would appear at first blush.

Executive Class - Management and above in corporate or government fields. Almost certainly have degrees and may have advanced degrees in their specific fields (MBA or whatnot). Usually eying the bosses job or a higher position at a new firm. Upwardly mobile.

Ruling Class - Those people who have acheived top status either through family or accomplishment who set policy for more than just their firms. These people tend to run the very largest firms, lobbying groups, or government.

I know there are others. And I’d be interested in mapping them out.

2

What about the NON-working poor?
Or Off-and-on-odd-job-working poor vs Unskilled labour but with steady job.

3

We covered the subject pretty thoroughly in http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=280737]this recent GD thread.

4

Sorry, that’s http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=280737.

5

I’d propose a technical class, for engineers and their ilk, separate from the professional class. Some engineers do quite well, others are watching their jobs shuttled off to Asia and Eastern Europe. The economics of salary are different than lawyers and doctors, whose jobs can’t be easily outsourced.

I’d also suggest that many in your office class might fit in with the ‘working poor’. Many office jobs, especially in Bush’s new “ownership society”, don’t convey benefits or if they do, the benefits are not nearly those as in other jobs. And the pay, at least here, is not exactly great. Also what about teachers?

I’d finally say that waiters and clerks fit into two classes: lifers and transitional. The transitional ones are attending school or will in the future.

6

Engineers don’t rate their own class–they can be comfortably split among the professional class (for P.E.'s) and the office class (for the rest of us).

7

Hrm. I think the ‘transitional’ group you defined would have to be sort of a ‘proto-CLASS’ group. That’s the group of people who have not yet defined (or had defined for them) their position in society. Kids in college who are in the workforce but still studying would be a part of that.

And where WOULD we put teachers? And would we have to define sub-classes for university professors and grade school teachers?

8

This has been covered in other threads to death. However, I’m unsure of the OP’s definition here:

I don’t think the wealthy can be lumped into a ‘Ruling class’. For one thing, folks who aren’t wealthy can (and do) still achieve public office…even the presidency (though no one not truely wealthy has run lately). I think this ‘Ruling class’ IF it exists, is a small subgroup spanning the Professional and Executive classes (and maybe even a few of the other classes like Office and even Working). If you rule out the Executive class folks, the Professional class and Office class folks you are left with an Independantly Wealthy sub group at the top…which is a VERY small group IMO. Most of the folks we consider ‘wealthy’ fall into one of the other classes like Executive or Professional…like Bill Gates for instance.

I guess I would fall into the Professional Class…which sucks because in the IMHO thread linked to by the OP I was (for a shinning moment anyway) Upper Class! I’m SO disappointed…wait until I tell the wife we’ve been demoted again. Its a conspiricy to keep the hispanic man down I tell you! :wink:

-XT

9

Teachers are definitely one of those groups which may be unified (to a certain extent) on one level and wildly diverse on another. Although all teachers may be presumed to have a certain level of education, their payscales vary widely by geography. Here on Long Island, public school teachers with experience frequently make over $100,000 per year (no, I am not making this up. Their salaries are published occasionally). In other areas, I gather, it’s all they can do to avoid having to take second or third jobs at Walmart.

10

Basically everyone wealthier than me is rich. Everyone with less wealth than me is poor.

11

Around here, elementary school teachers with a master’s degree and 15 years experience make about $35,000 per year. When one factors in the hours they work it probably pays about the same as a junior Wal*Mart assistant manager, on an hourly basis. Maybe. My assumption is that secondary school teachers’ salaries are similar if not the same. University professor is an entirely different class.

12

Well, I think there’s a misunderstanding at work, here.

Note: at no point in my OP do I link wealth to the class system. While different classes MAY on the whole lead to more or less income there are outliers.

So a ‘ruling’ class member may or may not be wealthy…they simply have large-scale influence.

13

What he said. I assume it was meant as a joke, but I’d say that’s a pretty accurate description of the way many people perceive things.

14

The position of university professor probably commands more respect from most people than high school teacher, but here again there are classes within the class, just like the engineers (Using that term very broadly, in case Una happens to drop by!). There’s quite a difference in income between a tenured full professor and an adjunct lecturer.

15

I don’t know that all waiters should be rated as “working poor”. I certainly am (grocery store employee – not management. Our lowest-paid management pulls in ~35k - 45k annually.), but my brother the server makes anywhere from 25 - 35k a year waiting tables at a chain family restaurant. Sure, for a single mom, that might be “poor”, but if there are two earners in the family, that’s easily enough for a middle-class existence, especially in our area – No state income tax, low-cost utilities, and 1-bedroom apartment rents starting around $350 / month.

16

Baically, people fall into “tracks” in life that define their “class”. Interests, style, fashion, all these things can be emulated. Shared experiences cannot. It would be hard for me to pass myself off as “old money” since I don’t know what it’s like to roam around my families mansion in Newport.

Basically I can tell you how “upper middle” to “lower wealthy” people live:

Grow up in a nice suburb. McMansion style or older town with a lot a trees between houses. Not some crappy subdivision. Probably within a few hours of a major city.

High school you are probably involved in some activities - sports, clubs, etc. Probably have a car you pay for or parents subsidize. Trendy, reasonibly up to date clothes unless you are rebelling against something. You pretty much expect to go to college and don’t have any real concerns about how it will be paid for.

Usually go to a top 50 college. Probably involved in the social scene - drinking, light drugs, hooking up. Typical baseball cap/J Crew A&F preppy jock style. Maybe actually into sports. You are there primarily for pursueing a career of interest - your parents aren’t wealthy enough to subsidize your adult life if you pick some bullshit major. Maybe grad school.

Graduate into a career in law, finance, technology, business, engineering. Something practical that pays well. Live (possibly with some college buddies) in a modest appartment in the big city. Make enough money to go out couple nights a week, eat out, maybe get a share in a shore/ski house.

Eventual management or highly paid management position. Good network of people with similar backgrounds - school, fraternity, sports alumni, professional contacts. Lucky few might become really rich through professional advancement. Move out to the suburbs, have some kids and start over again.

17

I think msmith has hit upon a particular aspect of class, namely that there is an aspect of mutual recognition among the members of a class. I can recognize someone who has a similar upbringing and education to myself, and someone who hasn’t. By the same token, I’d say that even a member of the upper middle class could, conceivably, be doing low-level temping to make their while down on their luck and seeking their next “good” job, but they remain a member of their class.

But I have to say that in certain areas of the country, the rising generation of the upper middle class fails to match the housing standards of their parents, because of skyrocketing real estate prices.

18

Gee, I wonder if the word professor can give us a clue about which “class” teachers fit into. :dubious: Teaching is considered one of the professions. Although entry into the profession in most states requires only four years of college, teachers are required to continue their educations after they are hired.

It is possible to move through these classes from top to bottom. The founder of Halliburton Oil, now deceased, grew up in the same dirt-poor rural town as Alex Haley. A psychiatrist I know put himself through school waiting on tables. The goofy little brother of my high school pal in a town of 2,000 became Sam Walton’s fishing buddy.

America is still flexible. When I first got a job in Nashville, before I finished school, some of the people who took me under their wings were founding families. I had no idea at the time. Very warm and open and unaffected.

For the most part, “class” is just a label of convenience, and not always accurate or meaningful.

19

LOL … a preoccupation with what job someone has is definitely a sign that you’re middle class … .

Class isn’t what you do, it’s how you do it. It’s a collection of tastes and attitudes and approaches to living. It’s the constellation of social mores and rules of etiquette that you feel the most comfortable with.

I’m an upper-mid guy. Drop me off at a wedding at a country club or the faculty club at my wife’s university or a lawyer’s office and I know how to behave. I can make the appropriate chit-chat and slot right in. I smell right to the other upper-mids.

But dump me in a truck stop or a sports bar or a debutante ball and I’ll flounder. I can’t talk the lower class talk at all, and I really have to exert an effort to pass myself off as mid-mid or upper. I don’t feel relaxed or comfortable in those situations and there’s a strong possibility that I will annoy or offend.

20

I dunno–there’s no real equivalent of “PE” in the computer software/support world, but there’s a ton of programmers, DBA’s, network engineers, etc. who make way more then your average CE with a PE.