In what way are you comparing the Kennedy clan vs. the Bush twins? Their charity works? They’re 21 year old college students. Or their scandals? In that case, have the Bush twins drowned, raped, or killed anybody?
Here’s the Veblen definition, FYI. This is taken from Introduction to Political Economy by Sackrey and Schneider, page 65:
“In the Veblenian system, then, the modern leisure class would consist of those whose ownership of wealth and whose control of the means of production permits them to engage in the same kind of relentless competition and predatory activity carried out by their barbarian forefathers, and more importantly, to be exempt from the menial jobs performed by ordinary workers. Modern leisure class activities would include high finance, corporate law, management, and other activities undertaken by those concerned mainly with ? “conversion of goods and persons to [their] own ends, and a callous disregard of the feelings and wishes of others, and of the remoter effects of his actions” (Dorfman 1961, 184). The modern menial class would thus consist of those who are not owners of property and thus must work for wages or salaries for someone else.”
They’re only 21, give them time. They are kind of slow however, their mother had already killed someone by the time she was 17. http://www.nctimes.com/news/050400/ss.html
You, sir, are not a gentleman. The First Lady has not killed anyone. She was involved in an accident in which someone was killed, yes, but she did not kill anyone. Notice the lack of charges being filed.
And if a 40 year old traffic accident by their then teen-age mother is the best slam you can come up with against the Bush twins, you have some work to do. Even then, I seriously doubt your alleged scandals will sink to the level of the Kennedy drowning, rape, and murder scandals.
That also seems to describe the Kennedy “drowning” incident pretty well.
I knew you’d latch on to that aspect. Anyway, seeing as how Ted Kennedy was 37 (not 17) at the time, and he was convicted of leaving the scene of an accident (Miss Welch received nary a traffic ticket), I don’t think the two incidents are comparable in any reasonable way.
When you come up with more false allegations against the Bush family in terms of rape and murder, let us know.
milroyj: Well, the article says she “ran a stop sign.” It sounds like she is damn lucky there were no charges. I had never even heard of this incident before. God knows that if Hillary Clinton had done such a thing, I would have known all about it!
lander2k2 wrote: “If you took the sector of [the white overclass] that contributes considerable sums to election campaigns and has connections to organizations like the Council on Foreign Relations or the Royal Institute of International Affairs, then you would find what is referred to as the ‘rich elite.’”
I’ve heard of the CFR, but what is this Royal Institute of International Affairs?
msmith357 wrote, “By your definition, anyone who is a white professional is a member of the ‘overclass’?” Not my definition, Michael Lind’s – which I find very convincing, really the best definition I’ve found after a lot of looking. But being a white professional (which I am) does not automatically make one a member of the overclass (which I almost certainly am not, even though I went to Georgetown U.). You also need a certain minimal level of financial success, plus certain social connections and, above all, a certain kind of acculturation or socialization. I think there is a large segment of American society who could be categorized as in the lower fringes of the overclass, or the upper fringes of the middle class, with equal plausibility; and with the potential to go up or down. This isn’t Great Britain. Classes here can never be precisely defined, except where they are defined by immutable characteristics such as race, as in the Old South. Nevertheless, class is a very real and important thing here and always has been.
Based the article, the only “charges” that seem relevant would be a moving violation for missing the stop sign. Otherwise, there is no evidence of any crime being committed. It was an accident.
`Take some more tea,’ the March Hare said to Alice, very earnestly.
I've had nothing yet,' Alice replied in an offended tone, so I can’t take more.’
You mean you can't take LESS,' said the Hatter: it’s very easy to take MORE than nothing.’
Some pills make you larger, and some pills make you small. The ones that Mother gives you don’t do anything at all. Just ask Alice, when she’s ten feet tall.
What crimes have the Bush twins committed other than a little underage drinking, pot smoking and partying? In my book, that doesn’t make them any better or worse than half the kids their age. It hardly indicates they belong to some kind of privledged class that lives above the law.
Well, you know there are some people who are locked up in jail for possession of marijuana or use of cocaine (which George W has refused to deny using). I’m not claiming that these are horrendous crimes but only that the treatment that the Bush clan has received for them is different than the treatment others have received. I remember a piece in the Nation by Patricia Williams noting that in the African-American community there is a widespread belief (that I personally feel has quite a bit of merit) that a poor black man who was as much of a partier / fuck-up as GW in his younger years would more likely be in jail now than President of the United States.
Along with what AvhHines said, comments about Xerox, Enron, and the discussion we could be having about Jack Welch looting GE, I’d like to talk about charity work.
Ever been involved in high-dollar a plate dinner or benefit? Most of the rich people don’t do anything but write checks. That chairwoman with her name in the society page probably paid her secretary to do the work. (I’ve seen some who do real work, but few.) “My Man Godfrey” describes there events rather well.
Back when I was more active in the art world, I spent plenty of time with trustanistas and socialites who did nothing, had never done anything, and had no plans to do anything. Mysteriously, women of this class are lousy tippers while the men are always good for 20-percent at least. That’s my anacdotal evidence.
The linked article, which will cost money or require a trip to your local library or online document service, has solid, sourced data about the rise in upper-level management compenstation. (Feel free to disagree with the analysis.) http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=FA0F1EF83A5E0C738EDDA90994DA404482
Too bad I worked through that leisure time; I might be making 6 figures as well.
How true. I had to learn spelling the old-fashioned way–by writing the correct spellings of my misspelled vocabulary words 100 times, by hand.
There’s been a lot said about race, and I know that the moneyed class is mostly white.
Are there any black families who would fall into the ‘leisure class’ definition?
Some very rich blacks might qualify as “leisure class.” At this stage of American history, however, a black who is rich enough not to have to work probably acquired his or her money through work in the past. There are very few black trust-fund kids. Yet.
Blacks might belong to the “leisure class,” but not to the “overclass.” Above I discussed Michael Lind’s book “The Next American Nation” and his theory of the white overclass. He did address the subject of race: In his analysis, there is a “black overclass” and a “Hispanic overclass,” but they are dependent, salaried auxiliaries of the white overclass. Some have high-level civil service positions, or even business executive positions, but they lack the real financial independence that characterizes the white overclass. And they are distinctly separate classes in terms of their social networks and marriage prospects. Individual blacks or Latinos – such as Clarence Thomas – might achieve full acceptance in the overclass, but they have to prove their acceptability one at a time.
My theory is that men demonstrate power and wealth by tossing money around. We buy outrageous cars and spend ridiculous amounts on alchohol. Part of the joy of being wealthy is the ability to bitch and complain about having to drop a shitload of money on something.
A woman socialite, on the other hand, generally has no skills and no source of income other than inhereted or married money. A person who basically marries for wealth is generally self-centered and greedy and is therefore less likely to tip.
Just my theory based on your annecdote.
Maybe you are right MacDairmuid. I always felt math and science were more important…maybe thats why I make that 6+ figure salaray, though I can’t spell very well. And maybe its because english is my second language. I’m much better at spanish…
BrainGlutton, I just read your long post on the white ‘overclass’. Its very interesting (I’m definitely going to look up that book and read more), but I’m at a loss on some points. What does this white ‘overclass’ supposedly DO? Do they rule the political system? People from your ‘overclass’ would seem to fall into both sides of the political spectrum, though from your general description, I’d say a lot of liberals certainly fall in there. But the government seems to swing back and forth between democrat and republican, liberal and conservative…so they don’t seem to be doing a very good job of keeping the ship of state on course. Or is it that they control the ‘means of production’? Is this ‘class’ supposedly united somehow? I assume that you agree that the supposed ‘leisure class’ is a very small minority in this…even your rich white ‘overclass’ has to WORK for a living…if I understand what you wrote correctly. Please correct me if I’m not understanding you fully.
Myself, I’m a hispanic who drinks beer (well, Guiness), and I only go to London on business…Paris is not my cup of tea. I’m not a big fan of Las Vegas or any of your other underclass cities though…I’m more for Jackson Hole and skiing. I play both golf and tenis, though I also play volley ball and do martial arts…and I don’t bowl, ever. 
I’m a catholic, though lapsed, so the protestant thing is clearly out. I’m clearly not part of your white ‘overclass’, but don’t feel particularly downtrodden. I’ve never seen that the oppertunities were kept from me or my family, though sometimes we need to work harder than some might have too. My father owns his own business (he’s the hispanic btw…my mother is ‘white’, so maybe I’m half overclass :))and belongs to a first tier country club, but its in Alb New Mexico so that might not count. He also drinks wine, which I find fairly disgusting, and smokes cigars (though not lit with $100 bills usually :)). The only category I know I fit into is American Citizen…
-XT
msmith537 - your theory makes a lot of sense. Even men who didn’t make their own money would follow the gender role and act as though they had. Thanks for the insight. Now… if we could only prove it!