Along with probably millions of other Americans, people we know are now “considering” leaving the USA for good and I can’t say that I blame them. For Mrs. Cretin and me, emigrating isn’t feasible, we’re too old (70’s), settled, and tired. But this has me wondering: easier said than done?
Given a married straight couple, both age 70, US citizens, financially “comfortable enough” but not wealthy, and given the presumably impending flood of American refugees, what obstacles would they face? In your considered opinions.
At least for Canada, your age is going to be a huge impediment. Canadian Permanent Resident status is based on a lottery system, and you get points for education, job experience in Canada, job experience outside of Canada, fluency in English, fluency in French, that sort of thing. The problem is that you get more points the younger you are, and in our fifties we don’t get any points for our age. My wife is the primary applicant, and she’s got a total of like 475 or so. The lottery lately hasn’t gone to anyone below 500, so we’re extremely unlikely to ever be invited using this system. Luckily she qualifies for the LMIA exemption due to her job, and after shelling out a couple of thousand bucks and jumping through a few hoops, we’re finally getting an invitation to apply.
For someone without a job? In your 70s? It’s extremely unlikely you’ll ever be drawn for the lottery.
It doesn’t help that some unscrupulous immigration representatives have apparently been cheating the system and getting higher points for their clients than they’re supposed to get. Hopefully that will be cracked down upon soon.
Something I’ve always wondered about this question: just how bad would it have to get for, say, a trans American before a first world country would consider an actual asylum application from them if they wouldn’t qualify for “normal” immigration otherwise?
Yup. After Trump’s first election, I began researching if my wife could get EU citizenship through her ancestry. After a ton of records searching, it turns out that she juuuust qualified. We spent the next 5 years pursuing her dual citizenship for precisely this purpose: to leave the US if he gets elected again. It was a ton of time, paperwork and no small expense, but she got it just a few months ago, and we have an appointment to get her physical passport in February.
There are plenty of countries you can buy your way into if you are wealthy, but if not, expect it to take a long time even if you qualify.
What about someplace like the UK? I’m retired, age 70, and live alone. I have a fair amount of money, but wouldn’t consider myself wealthy by any stretch. My maternal grandfather was born and raised in England, but came to the US through Canada prior to WWI.
I’m not looking at becoming a UK citizen,or to have dual citizenship, but rather permission to stay there for a fairly long time, say 5 to 10 years. So a visitor’s visa won’t work. I won’t use the NHS, and would stick with private medical care if needed. I’d even be willing to pay taxes on the social security I receive from the US. Any hope for me? What about the Republic of Ireland?
It was really hard, and took months of effort, and in some respects we got very lucky. We started literally the day after the election in 2016, and eight months after the inauguration, we boarded a plane for what is now our new home here in Europe.
With the now-unfolding news, I briefly considered starting a “how I moved” thread, because I’m sure there are a lot of people who want to know. (We’ve gotten a dozen pings from friends back in the States today.) But I decided against it, because I don’t know what I could say to people that would be of any use beyond the bare facts above that it was very difficult, took a long time, and depended on substantial luck, and that this is entirely my own family’s personal story and I have no particular knowledge or insight to offer regarding anyone else’s specific situation.
But I will say that it is not impossible, because we did it.
There are lots of countries which welcome American retirees who have a reasonable income:
But obvioiusly an alternative is to massively cut back on media and social media discussing Trump, etc [for example on Straight Dope set up filters so you don’t see any articles tagged Trump, the whole Politics/Elections section…].
As an American who has lived more of my adult life outside the US than within it, I agree with the general tenor of advice given above: yes, it is easier said than done but it’s not impossible. That first article @PastTense shared looks like an excellent starting point.
There is little danger that anyone will impulsively rush into a life abroad only to regret it later, because it takes quite a lot of time to plan a successful international move (especially without help from an employer who is transferring you to another country and thus taking care of a lot of the logistics for you).
But no one should start the process feeling too starry-eyed. Depending on where you intend to go, cultural differences, language barriers, visa costs, health care quality and other factors may have a significant impact. Nowhere in the world is perfect.
Ireland - not much hope, unless you have: 1) an employer willing to sponsor you to get a work visa, 2) a close family member living here to reunite with, or 3) entitlement to Irish or EU citizenship.
I have a friend who retired early and splits time between the US and Mexico. I think he said the visa is for only 90 days, then you have to leave Mexico. But, you don’t have to leave for long, so he comes back to the states every couple-three months for a few days visiting family and friends, then goes back to Mexico with a fresh 90-day visa. Our cycling guide in Costa Rica mentioned this, too - he was an American living there and he said he just had to spend a night across the border in Nicaragua every 3 months and then was good for a while. I don’t know if this strategy is legit - Is that how it’s done?
I saw this article on the CNN website (don’t know if the paywall will be an issue) the other day about an American couple who moved from San Francisco to Nîmes in southern France just over a year ago but are now going home. The reasons include the language barrier (the wife found it difficult to pick up the language), the food (she said the produce in the market was terrible), finding a primary care physician who accepts new patients, the bureaucracy and the difficulty of establishing friendships. Perhaps one year wasn’t enough time to adjust? Certainly others may have a different experience. But wherever you go, not knowing the local language is going to be an issue.
Edited to add, here is a gift link to a two-month-old New York Times article about various Americans who have already moved overseas or are planning to do so.
I’m in the Irish FBR (Foreign Born Registry) courtesy of my grandfather, who emigrated in the 1880s. So I could emigrate back, and just as a Plan C/D/E I’m applying for an Irish passport. But since my daughters were born before I became an Irish citizen, they’re out of luck. I suppose once I established residency for a suitable period of time I could sponsor them, but at the moment I feel the need to be here for them.
…How would that help? The problem with Trump isn’t that he says mean things. The problem is that he does real, actual things in the real, actual world to make people suffer. Ignoring the problem won’t make it go away.
Nope. UK doesn’t do retirement visas and is very stingy about citizenship by descent. Ireland and Italy will give you citizenship if you have just one grandparent from there, dunno about other European countries.
You’d be better off looking at poorer countries; I knew a guy who retired to Uruguay, and another in Thailand. There are definitely places that will accept retirees provided you have money to spend.
Agree with this. It’s never wise to make big decisions when in despair. Wait a while and see how you feel. Unless you are seeing a developing Kristallnacht in your town, it’s probably not as urgent as it may feel right at the moment. However, I can support daydreaming and investigating what life may be like to live somewhere else - no harm in that, and may be therapeutic.
I wonder about Panama.
I was semi-seriously looking into moving there a few years ago and even though I ultimately decided not to move then, what I remember was that Panama wants US retirees and makes it very easy for them to go there. I’m not saying there’s no requirements for financials and what not, but it seemed like it might not be too bad despite the climate there.
My worry would be political pressure from trump and his thugs for whatever reason on the government down there
My ex and his wife moved to Cuenca, Ecuador around 10-11 years ago and they love it there. I don’t know what the cash equivalent was required to live there in retirement, but they were far from rich. Just another place to investigate.