[QUOTE] Originally posted by MrAndrewV *
** Secondly (and I don’t know if this is true and I would appreciate it if someone could tell me) I was under the impression that capitalism can only function in a constantly expanding consumer market. If this is true then sooner or later either the Earth is going to be horribly overpopulated or Capitalism is going to collapse. Bit iffy I know but worth thinking about.*
Capitalism is basically the accumulation of wealth and in order to accumulate as much as possible, a business generally has to expand more and more. Might not be true of some small businesses, but it sure is of corporations and businesses that intend to expand. That’s about the best I can explain it for now. I think others here can do better. heheheh. I do think that the Capitalism will die eventually. It’s just a question of when and how. Finally… just THINK about it guys: an economic system where the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. Come on! That CANT be right.
And it’s not. I always figured that for someone to win, someone has to lose. And what happens to the person who loses? If they lose, it’s harder for them “win” until they have to “sell” is their labor under someone else. Also, for people to be rich, others have to be poor. On a global scale, most people live in absolute poverty while a few prosper greatly. As for the middle class, it’s shrinking in the US and seems most successful in places like Canada and Europe, despite their own foibles.
I couldn’t have put it more succinctly! I wonder why that is…
Far-left lefty as far as my social/political/enviromental views go, but pretty centrist as far as economic idealogies go.
For the SDMB being called a “lefty infested” board as often as it has been, I’m surprised to find so few of us chiming in on this thread.
Someone named Nietsche a leftist? Whod’ve guessed…
In any case, I’m a Democratic Socialist. Unfair distribution of wealth=bad.
However, Communism destroys the will to work. We live in a selfish world, and people will always work harder if there is a personal incentive. I’ve VERY free-market, to an extent.
I don’t trust “isms”, but if I had to pick a political ideology and stick with it, I suppose that I think the anarcho-syndicalists come closest to the mark.
I’ve organized for labour unions. I try to retain an egalitarian P.O.V. I guess that makes me a leftie.
I appreciate socialism as only a Canadian can, having taken socialized health care and other benefits almost for granted for most of my life.
There are many people who work hard with little or no personal gain. The most famous example is the group Medecins sans Frontieres (Doctors without Frontiers), 1999 Nobel Peace Prize laureate. These doctors can make gobs of $$$ if they want by going into private pratice, but they chose to help the poor and the needy. What about the volunteers for charitable organisations?
I am sure there are those who are driven by money like nothing else, but then there are these noble souls who work for the good of human kind.
::MsRobyn puts her Mother Jones down long enough to respond::
Yeah, I’m a leftist. I’m a pro-choice, anti-death penalty, feminist, anti-stupidity civil libertarian whose Bush crap filter is running at maximum efficiency.
Sure, but they’re a small percentage of the total population. Human nature being what it is, even if you gave everyone an equal share of the pie, there will be some folks who (a) want a bigger piece and (b) are thiking up schemes to steal their neighbor’s piece.
Communism would have been a perfect idea if human beings weren’t involved.
I consider myself a pragmatic leftist. In other words, I lean in the direction of most of the conventional left-oriented causes and beliefs, as far as “left” has been loosely defined in this thread so far, but I absolutely refuse to adhere to dogma of any kind.
For example: I think extreme laissez-faire economists, and especially “hard” libertarians, live in a fantasy world. A totally unregulated free market will give rise to truly horrific socioeconomic abuses, simply because humans are flawed and selfish and short-sighted when viewed in the aggregate. But at the same time, most of the alternatives have been demonstrated to be totally unworkable and worse than capitalism, largely due to those same human flaws. There is no such thing as a perfect system, but in my view market-based forces tend to produce the healthiest effects in the long term. They just have to be carefully monitored and regulated to ensure they’re working properly.
In general, I don’t trust anybody who thinks they have all the answers. I think anybody, on the left or the right, who says they have a simple answer to a complicated problem either is being deceptive with a hidden agenda or doesn’t actually understand the problem.
Originally posted by Cervaise
" But at the same time, most of the alternatives have been demonstrated to be totally unworkable and worse than capitalism, largely due to those same human flaws."
I dunno…it’s been said that Russia and China were simply planned economic STATE Capitalisms rather than actual Communisms/Socialisms. Especially given that they were hardly capitalist before their revolutions. It certainly doesn’t help that many leftist/reformist movements have been crushed and infiltrated by the more powerful and more advantaged opposition. HOWEVER, I do agree that idealism IS a problem no matter the spectrum. So is power mongering and those who co-opt an idealogy for their own purposes. That’s true everywhere.
And some people DO consider the bad side of capitalism MUCH worse than the flaws in socialism/communism. Depends on who you ask, really. Heh
“There is no such thing as a perfect system, but in my view market-based forces tend to produce the healthiest effects in the long term. They just have to be carefully monitored and regulated to ensure they’re working properly.”
Indeed. People looking for perfection or something that adheres to every aspect of their ideaology can be a real problem on either side.
"In general, I don’t trust anybody who thinks they have all the answers. I think anybody, on the left or the right, who says they have a simple answer to a complicated problem either is being deceptive with a hidden agenda or doesn’t actually understand the problem. "
Alright… so I’m actually a nihilistic anarchist, but since we’re considered “fringe” politically, I like to mingle with lefties. Besides, there’s less religious goons amongst lefties.
Let’s see: the NDP/NPD is a constituent party of the Socialist International. As a member of the Alberta New Democrats, I am a member of the federal party (gotta love the federal structure of the party). Therefore I am a member of a constituent party of the Socialist International.
All things considered I am left of center, but also a staunch capitalist and am a registered independent. Many of my opinions tend to fall in the libertarian camp as well. Personally, I do not identify as a “lefty,” as I too tend to associate that with die-hard socialism and bleeding-heart liberalism, the latter being that which I abhore.
Shoot, I don’t like being pigeonholed into a category and being assumed to believe a whole list of items by being a member of that category.
I dislike abortion, but I’m pro-choice because I believe the state has no business controlling a woman’s reproductive rights.
I think the death penalty should be suspended because of the inequities in its application, with the exception of Jihad Johnny Walker Lindh.
I believe in having a strong military to defend America and its interests. I also think military action, while sometimes necessary, should be used as a last resort.
I believe in preserving clean air and water for our children, but I abhor the ignorant nuts’n’berries Luddites who wish to dismantle all technology in the name of environmentalism.
I believe that all children should be given an equal education in clean, safe schools. I believe that the government should provide aid to the destitute, but it should not enable continual multigenerational reliance on welfare.
I believe in legalized gay marriage and adoption.
I believe that dissent against government policies is the highest form of patriotism, as shown by Thoreau refusing to pay his poll tax to protest the Mexican War. I believe that honest dissent does not include siding with America’s enemies or cheering the deaths of American servicemen. Protesting American involvement in Afghanistan is misguided but honorable; fighting against US troops with Al Qaeda is treason.
I believe that government only has the powers ceded to it by general agreement of the people.
