Am I the only one who is tired of people aligning themselves with a party? This is part of the post that kind of set me off to this:
copy/paste:
"techchick68
Member
Registered: Oct 1999
Posts: 4365
While I don’t agree with the sentiments projected by the OP I do, as a Libertarian, feel it is invasive and search is done without cause."
Do you really feel that was as a “Libertarian” or do you feel that way, as a rational human being?
Don’t get me wrong, obviously using labels (such as parties) does well to sum up a person’s beliefs. However, do you think a certain way because you are a [insert_stupid_political_party_here], or do you think a certain way, therefore that aligns you with [insert_stupid_political_party_here]? I feel it is the latter…
I guess I’m starting to get pissed at statements like these, because they remind me of organized religion. You must subscribe to all of ‘x’ ideas, because you are a member of ‘x’. Fuck that… think for yourself… if a group of people think similarly, you can align yourself with said group… but if that group starts controlling how you think, then you have given away your natural ability to think for yourself.
Libertarianism is a political philosophy, as well as the party that tries to work towards the ideals of that philosophy.
Would you object to statements such as “as a homosexual,” “as a Taoist,” “as a rational human being,” “as a vegetarian,” or “as a teenager”?
Techchick wasn’t saying that she was expressing an opinion because her political party demanded it, but rather because that opinion is dictated by a set of beliefs she holds. Basically, she believes in certain general principles, and uses those as a guide for whether a given situation is right or wrong. Just as someone might say “as a gun control opponent, I feel that the Supreme Court has not done enough to protect the Second Ammendment.”
Well, to clarify, I definitely meant no offense to techchick. It could have been mis-worded…
Waterj, as far as your comment, I kind of agree and disagree… I thought I already covered that by saying “labels are convenient to sum up your beliefs”… but there are many people who let their party speak for them… I just don’t think that’s right.
political parties can kiss my…
I don’t vote for the party, I vote for the person. Therefore, I don’t subscribe to any particular party. To do so seems wrong, at least from my perspective.
a) I’ve been reading straight dope for 5+ years. I recently decided that I need a new forum to chat on. I’ve been lurking the forums for quite some time also. If you think I’m some kind of a forum newbie, you’re wrong.
b) I’m not pissed at techchick or anyone else on this forum… I’m pissed at people in general who can’t think for themselves. If the shoe fits you… well…
Right, there are many people who let their party labels speak for them. But the cite you gave us isn’t one of them. As illustrated by waterj2, Libertarianism is both a philosophy and a party.
So, if you’d like to provide a cite in which someone says, “As a Democrat, I believe…” or “As a Republican, I believe…” or “As a member of Canada’s NDP, I believe…” then we can get rolling on this.
If you’re just saying “I hate labels”, well…peachy for you, I guess.
Seriously, Big Perm, the vast majority of us do quite thoroughly think for ourselves – and those who parrot a line get quite effectively flamed by the others. I strongly suspect the explanation waterj2 gave is accurate, and I’ve known techchick online for long enough to guarantee that whatever she meant, it was not, “As a member of the Libertarian Party, it is incumbent on me to echo to you the party line on the topic, thus>>>”
I’m a Liberal. Describing my sociopolitical views. I used to live in New York State, but never belonged to the third party there of that name, and while I lived 30 miles from Canada, I had absolutely no use for most of the Ontario Liberal Party. My new home state has only three recognized parties, as per your OP. And I’m a Democrat.
I’m a lot of other things too. And occasionally I will post the official views of groups I belong to (or ones I don’t but grasp the views of clearly enough to echo). And depict them as such.
And sometimes, having done so, I’ll take a stand in opposition to the view I’ve cited as theirs. It has to do with making information available.
If anybody thought the Presbyterians were fundamentalists, I’d be glad to correct their error. And then, if appropriate, post my own views of where (IMHO) both Presbys and fundys are out to lunch. (shorthand okay in this context, Bill?)
Necros, I posted in the pit because I didn’t want to come up with a thesis about people and personalities that make these kinds of statements. Techchick’s post simply reminded me of a topic that irritates me, and that is mostly partisan politics, and namely… that fucking check box at the top of the ballot that allows you to vote all Democrat or all Republican… grrrrr.
Actually, I kinda like party identification… it means a lot in places where there is actual party discipline in the legislatures. I seldom give a rat’s ass about the person running, I look at party affiliation – I realize that some of the Liberals and a few of the Tories are probably reasonably fun at a party (not the case with the Reform/Alliance/whatever they are calling themselves this week), but I’m sticking with the NDP.
I’m a fucking Democrat, and he still did that. The thing that pisses me off about this is that she was using Libertarian like it gave her some sort of law degree and expertise in the bill of rights. She was waving her political dick around like I should somehow be impressed, or that her alleged “Libertarianism” (which she then went on to more or less ignore, as she suggested that criminals have “no rights”) made her a fucking expert. Frankly, it insults me as an American that she thinks she has some sort of political superiorty over me, and she has to voice it in every thread she posts in that has the least bit to do with politics.
Well, to tell you the truth, it wasn’t necessarily about you… your statement is what keyed me in to something that has been irritating me for awhile. I’m quite sure (as shown by all of the support for you in this thread alone) that you probably don’t fall into the category described in the OP.
Like I said above, if we can just get rid of those damned boxes at the top that let you vote for all Rep or all Dem on the voting ballots… grrrr!
Doubt that any one (let alone most/all) folks don’t vote for the person vs. the party.
Self-Use of a political label is a matter of personal choice. Some folks will accept/use the liberal/conservative labels, others will use party names.
I see more of the “I’m a liberal and I still believe so and so is nuts” or “I’m a conservative and even I don’t believe such and such” type of thing vs. what the OP is talking about.
Great a grip - you’re welcome to get cheesed at whatever you want, but griping that folks describe themselves using political labels seems pretty damned minor to me. Obviously YMV.
