Legal advice-- Mail fraud or not?

Factual Questions
1

Okay. This story is going to require quite a bit of exposition, so bear with me.
My aunt, who for purposes of this story I will refer to as Jane, was married to Mr. Doe at one point. She got a divorce, but kept her married name, Jane Doe.

Mr. Doe went on to marry another woman. Coincidentally, her name is also Jane, thus creating another Jane Doe. Unfortunately, this Jane is also a complete nutcase, HATES my aunt, and will do anything to fuck with her.

This latest one, however, takes the cake. Turns out that Jane Doe the Second went to the post office and filled out a change of address card, putting my aunt’s current address as the old address and her address as the new. This ended up diverting all of my aunt’s mail for two weeks before everything was straightened out.

This is illegal, right? So we call the Postmaster General of their area, who basically says, “Well, we’re not sure what we can do, considering the two women do have the same name.” Now, I’m not a lawyer, but I figure mail fraud is mail fraud, whether or not the postal disservice screwed up in allowing it to happen. If the woman did this, she should be punished. But the Postmaster guy is saying that the bitch might get away with it.

So, all you lawyers out there–can she get away with it? If not, what can my aunt do in order to make sure that she doesn’t? I would love nothing more than to see this bitch rot in Federal prison for what she’s done to my aunt and her kids, and if you could help me, you’d have the eternal thankfulness of my family, as well as that of two pre-teens who will be thanking you until their dying breath that you got this crazy woman out of their lives for good.

Sorry, I digress. So, can we put the bitch behind bars?

2

It is not illegal. The same type thing happened to my mom. She has the same first name as her mother in law. So both of thier names are “Jane Doe” too. She was living at her mother in laws home with her husband, for a short while, and when there home was finished being built they moved out. She also put in a change of address and recieved her mother in laws mail for a while before she thought to start using a middle inital with everything. :slight_smile:

3

Sorry, Yosemite, but I think it is illegal. This was not an accidental oversight on the woman. She deliberatley put another person’s address on the card, and signed it, claiming to be that person. I don’t think she forgot her old address and somehow thought it was her husband’s ex’s. Sounds like mail fraud to me. And it sounds like the Postmaster in question is either a friend of hers or a pussy or just plain lazy.

4

You might also want to consider, Yosemite, that you and your MIL lived in the same house, and you WERE actually moving from it. The fact that your post office forwarded her mail too was just a mistake on their part. My aunt and this woman never shared a residence.

5

don’t know that “mail Fraud” is the technical term, but more likely to be “Mail theft”. Did this witch give the mail back eventually? anyhow. re: postmaster response, it’s been my experience, that, at times, SOME of the middle management folks at the USPS are, shall we say, um, well, I’d go for a second opinion.

I had mail physically stolen from my box, torn open and re-distributed around the block. Turned out it was 6 year olds, playing “mailman” but at first I didn’t know this, thought some low life was ripping off my mail for illegal purposes. whatever. Talked to the yahoo at the local postoffice, he claimed it was a police matter and refused to take any info. The police passed the buck back to the PO. I ended up contacting the area supervising post office person (in a neighboring city) and he instructed me CAREFULLY to call Mr. Yahoo back and tell him that I’d talked to him and was advised that it WAS their business and to take a report.

My advice? try again - also ask your regular carrier - they often know the specific form number for you to refer to. Yea, the post office cannot prevent this sort of mucking with ahead of time, but they sure can deal with mail theft after the fact… especially since the low life in question NEVER lived at that address and clearly intended some nasty. at the very least, a restraining order from a civil court and /or a lawsuit (gads I can’t believe I’m advocating suing some one, but there it is…)

6

An eye for an eye…

Have Jane #2’s mail forwarded to Jane #1’s house who, of course, will claim it was an ‘accident’ but she understood some of her mail was going to the new address by mistake and was doing this to correct it. Oh course, she’s ‘sorry’ some of Jane #2’s mail came along with hers. She might also be sorry it fell in the toilet first, got pissed on, was used to clean up dog shit in the yard, etc. But hey…those things happen. Better yet, if everything is already sorted out with Jane #1’s mail as you stated, then perhaps she might like to help Jane #2 out with her next move…like say to the New York Stock Exchange, or other random large corporation in another state/ country where it will get routed around for month’s before someone figures out it is the incorrect address and sends it back ‘return to sender’. If the post office truly won’t do anything, then I’d go with a cooling off period and do the same thing back to the bitch!

7

I’m sure you can prove the signature on the COA is a forgery…that’s got to count for something. I bet the PO has the original postcard on file somewhere.
Just my .02
Rose

8

DRAIN, the “change of address” card on the 'net (google search: “post office” “change of address”) contains the following language:

So, yes, it is illegal.

It sounds like the Postmaster’s answer was based on an erroneous assumption that you aunt intended to avenge herself on the post office, and not the person who did it. The post office’s defense to such an action would obviously be that the names are the same and they could not be expected to know that a particular Jane Doe is not the “right” Jane Doe. That’s not relevant to taking action against the person, though.

Mail fraud is generally considered to be fraud perpetrated through the mail – i.e., using the mail as the vehicle for the fraud. I don’t know if misdirecting falls under that definition or not. It might. You might want to take a look at the code sections in question. You also might want to bring them to her attention, via a letter you would of course keep a copy of, to discourage her from doing it again and as further evidence in case she does do it again. Or you could demand that the post office send such a letter itself, now that the violation of the regulations has been brought to its attention.

9

Did you call the Postal Inspector’s office? Or did you just talk to some jerk in the Post Master General’s Office??
Call the Postal Inspector’s Office, they will be able to tell you if they can do anything.

Go here to finf a number.
http://www.framed.usps.com/ncsc/locators/find-is.html

Also, I would call your local police department as well.

Make it clear to them that the new Jane Doe, NEVER lived at the previous address. And that she made the change of address to steal/interupt your mail service. This is definately ilegal. Had she actually lived at the previous address she listed on the card, things would be different. But she never lived there, so this is a crime. I am sure if you explain it slowly they will understand what happend.
If not, go after her civily! Get a lawyer. A good one that will only take payment after he gets a lot of money from that mail-stealing bitch.

10

preview, must remember to preview

darn vB code . . .

11

Isn’t fucking with the mail a federal crime, maybe a felony?

Would stealing it apply, which this essentially was? It was no different than the kids stealing social security checks in NYC back when I lived there (and maybe now for all I know) except the bitch got the post office to hand deliver the mail she stole to her, and I recall the New York media talking about some pretty stiff penalties for anyone caught stealing US Mail…

Yer pal,
Satan

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12

It’s illegal. Look at it this way: if Jane
Doe 1 found a check made out to Jane Doe 11
and cashed it, it’s illegal. Same idea.

13

Highlighting done by me to point to relevant issues (as far as I can tell…read the whole thing yourself anyway).

Also, IIRC doesn’t Tom Cruise in that John Grisham movie bust his employers for mail fraud where each letter constituted a separate instince of fraud. Five years a pop times several hundred letters in their case. While basing a legal case off of movies probably isn’t a good idea it might be something to look into as well.

Also, I’m surprised at your Post Master’s reaction. I was always of the opinion that the US Postal Service took a severly dim view of ANYONE screwing around with the mail and would gleefully have at anyone if for no other reason than to make an example of them.

One last thing, try notifying the Attorney General in your state since they are the ones who start criminal proceedings in the first place.

Given the US Code listed above I’d say Jane Doe II is in potentially BIG trouble if you can prove she filled out said postal card.

Go get her tiger!

14

Bead:

From reading this thread, you’d think Jane II had begun a white slave ring.

I have no doubt that what she did was technically illegal, but everyone is talking like she’ll be spending the next ten years making small rocks out of big rocks while wearing unflattering horizonal stripes.

I somehow doubt that two spatting ladies who hijack each other’s Readers Digests and Walter Drake catalogs really loom large on the Feds’ mail fraud radar screen. In fact, maybe the “dense” Postmaster you spoke with understood you perfectly, but was rolling his eyes on the other end of the phone hoping you’d settle your family squabbles over the Thanksgiving table and leave Uncle Sam out of it.

My guess is that – at best – Jane II gets a phone call from some weary postal schlub who says, “Lady, don’t do that again or we’ll have to come down there and add four MORE digits to your zip code. Okay?” End of the big “felony” investigation.

Hey, it’s not that I’m not on your side here. Jane II sounds like a real bitch – and a cunnung one at that! I just want to inject some perspective here. Good luck.

15

I just wanted to add, that if Jane 1 hasn’t already done so, she needs to get a P.O. Box or the equivalent asap, and NOT let #2 have the address of it, to ensure this shit doesn’t happen again.

It really depends on the postal ppl in your area what’ll happen. You might have a better case if she had late bills/cut off utilities or stuff like that that was directly due to the mail being “re-routed”.

Also, yes, the PO does keep the COA cards on file for (I think) a year. I am pretty sure they wouldn’t release them without a subpoena.

–tygre

16

Jane Doe #1 should mail a box a poisonous spiders to the IRS, NSA & FBI with Jane Doe #2’s return address in bold print.

17

I’m not sure if my aunt had utility bills cut off (she pretty much would have had to be late on them BEFORE for a 15-day interruption in mail to cause problems), but the cable people got on her ass for the late payment. Plus, she is still missing a check that she was expecting in the mail and never got. So it’s more than just an annoyance of missing a magazine or two.

This isn’t the first time this has happened. Jane Doe #2 once tried to get my aunt’s prescription records from a pharmacy. They were about to give them to her when the pharmacist, a friend of my aunt’s, saw that the woman requesting the records was NOT my aunt. When confronted, Jane Doe #2 simply said, “Oh, but I was looking for Jane Q. Doe’s records, not Jane P. Doe.” Thing is, Jane Q. Doe never HAD any records at that particular pharmacy. But in that case, nothing bad happened and we can’t prove anything.

Rest assured, this isn’t just a squabble. The woman is NUTS. She tried to fake HEART SURGERY to get out of an appearance in court and drum up sympathy with the judge. The case was thrown out of court when they called around and found out she was making the whole thing up.

Maybe she’s not running a “white slave ring,” but she really needs to learn that she can’t get away with harrassing people all the time. And what she did was certainly illegal.

And to those of you who have suggested little revenge things–well, that’s fun to fantasize about, but who really wants to stoop to that level? I mean, she’s been doing this kind of crap to my aunt for years, and she just wants it to STOP. Plus, my aunt has two boys that she needs to set a good example for. As much as doing the same thing back to the bitch would be a nice catharsis, it wouldn’t be a good thing to teach her sons.

18

When you sign the form for mail forwarding it has a note there saying that it is illegal to sign it unless you are that person so I have no doubt this is illegal.

Now, once it has happened you may have a little trouble getting your postal workers off their backsides (as wwe all know) but I am sure you can do something about it.

First step would be to try higher up and a bit more pressure (like formal letter) and then, if that does not work, retain a lawyer. I’m quite sure that will get their attention.

But of course the fat, lazy postal worker is going to try to make you go away by ignoring you. (Yes, I know I am painting with a broad brush here but I’ve just had a brush with an extra-fat, extra lazy postal so-called “worker”).