Legal question about paver walk installation

Factual Questions
1

My wife and I just had a paver patio and front walk installed at our new house. The back patio is a rectangle. We have no real issues with it.

However, we hate the front walk. It looks like it was laid out by a drunk person. When we started, we agreed on a layout that was marked out with spray paint. Of course when installation began, they dug all of this up.

Anyway, they finished the front walk, and we think that it looks awful. Everyone who has seen it agrees that it looks amateurish and unprofessional. Note that this was installed by a company that does nothing but this type of work. We interviewed numerous installers before picking this guy, and were impressed with his portfolio and knowledge.

I brought our concerns to the company owner’s attention, and his reaction was terrible. He told me that I was a “pain in the ass” and that he saw nothing wrong with the walk. He also told me that he “wouldn’t be accepting any more of my phone calls.” Then he gave me the final bill and drove off.

This was not a cheap job. It cost over $10,000. We still owe him half of the money.

What are our options at this point?

I’d like to give the guy a chance to fix the walk–however, based on his extreme reaction to a minor fix on the most egregious part of the walk (a severely flattened curve at one end), I don’t see him reacting well to my telling him that we want most of the walk reinstalled because the whole thing is asymmetrical and just looks strange.

We could also have someone else rip out and replace his work and take the cost of this out of what we owe him. How much legal standing do I have with this course of action? Again, this installer is insisting he fulfilled the terms of the contract–he supplied a 4-foot wide walk. It’s just that it’s asymmetrical and looks awful.

I’m so upset about this whole thing. It cost so much money, and this is what we got.

2

You probably don’t want to approach this from a legal aspect. It will likely be a no win situation for either party. With the amount of money both parties should have done the agreement in writing. It sounds like that didn’t happen. If you did you satisfaction vs cost would already be answered. Your legal case would be a he said she said.

Unless there is some discrepancy as to the amount of hours he charged you and the amount of material provided, he has every right to the money.

If I somehow found myself in your situation I would probably be confrontational with him and force a compromise in the final price or him coming back to fix it.

If you want to try and avoid the situation and be done with it you could short him on the final check and mail it to him. If you as much as a pain in the ass to him as he claims you could likely short him 1-2k and it wouldn’t be worth his time to pursue it further.

3

[QUOTE=boytyperanma]
You probably don’t want to approach this from a legal aspect. It will likely be a no win situation for either party. With the amount of money both parties should have done the agreement in writing. It sounds like that didn’t happen. If you did you satisfaction vs cost would already be answered. Your legal case would be a he said she said.

Unless there is some discrepancy as to the amount of hours he charged you and the amount of material provided, he has every right to the money.

If I somehow found myself in your situation I would probably be confrontational with him and force a compromise in the final price or him coming back to fix it.

If you want to try and avoid the situation and be done with it you could short him on the final check and mail it to him. If you as much as a pain in the ass to him as he claims you could likely short him 1-2k and it wouldn’t be worth his time to pursue it further.
[/QUOTE]

I don’t want to go the legal route. But if he refuses to fix the walk, and I do not pay him the balance due, he is likely to go after me for the money, right?

On the other hand, we feel that for the money we paid, we have the right to a nice looking walk, and the one that he supplied looks terrible.

There was a written agreement, but it didn’t specify the actual layout of the walk, just width and square footage.

There has to be some provision for this sort of thing. What if he had installed the walk in the wrong direction and stopped in the middle of the yard? That would also be a “walk with the specified width and square footage.” Do you think he would have a right to the money then?

Also, I don’t believe that I have actually been a “pain in the ass.” I’m an engineer. I deal with construction contractors all the time. The only time I spoke with him was when he left a 1-1/2" gap between the back steps and the house, such that the wood kickplate under the door would no longer cover a defect at the back of the new granite landing. When he moved the granite back to cover the gap, I accepted the defective landing. Oh, and I asked him to please use some blocks when they drove onto our yard from the street since they were ruining the asphalt curbs at the street.

His crew worked on the whole job for four days. I spoke to him each morning for about 15 minutes before I went to work and he went to another job. That was the extent of our conversations.

4

First off, I don’t see how this is a GQ.
Having said that, I think that, unless you can negotiate w/ the contractor, you’re probably stuck. Ten K is probably not worth a full fledged law suit and you’re unlikely to win in small claims, unless you can positively demonstrate that the workmanship is grossly inadequate.
I know you think it’s a bad job, but convincing a judge of that, in a few short minutes, is going to be difficult. Even then, the small claims limit in your jurisdiction may not be enough to satisfy you, even if you prevail.

5

First of all, file a complaint with the BBB in your area. That’s always a good start, because contractors hate having negative ratings there.

Second of all, even a bad job has a fair amount of value. So regardless how badly the job is done, you still would be required to pay something substantial for it in a court of law. The law isn’t there to remedy disputes over value of work done, usually.

Thirdly, the legal aspect can be quite complicated, with such things as implied warranties, not to mention the actual contract in question, which in such cases may well have been verbal. If you truly think it’s worth being in court over, then you need to talk to an attorney about it in your jurisdiction, since the law on the subject is not uniform state to state.

Finally, if you think that fraud was involved in any way, talk to the local district attorney’s office, and explain your reasoning. It doesn’t sound like fraud involved from anything you say, but I offer it as a helpful recommendation for any reading the thread who have similar situations.

REALLY finally, please be aware that, as always, any pseudo-legal advice you get in this forum is worth exactly what you paid for it: NADA. :stuck_out_tongue:

6

[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
First off, I don’t see how this is a GQ.
Having said that, I think that, unless you can negotiate w/ the contractor, you’re probably stuck. Ten K is probably not worth a full fledged law suit and you’re unlikely to win in small claims, unless you can positively demonstrate that the workmanship is grossly inadequate.
I know you think it’s a bad job, but convincing a judge of that, in a few short minutes, is going to be difficult. Even then, the small claims limit in your jurisdiction may not be enough to satisfy you, even if you prevail.
[/QUOTE]

I haven’t paid him yet. If anyone goes the legal route at this point, it would be him to get the remaining 50% of the contracted fee.

If I do pay him now, I have lost all negotiating strength, and I am sure that I will never see him again. If don’t pay him, or pay him a reduced amount, what can he do? File a claim? Contact a collection agency? Hit my credit report?

What can I do if he does any of this? Dispute the charge?

I’m hoping he will fix it. Based on his reaction so far, though, I’d be very surprised if he does anything, much less correct the whole walk.

We were going to contact some other installers this weekend to see what they think and to get quotes on what they would charge to correct the walk.

7

[QUOTE=robby]
I haven’t paid him yet. If anyone goes the legal route at this point, it would be him to get the remaining 50% of the contracted fee.

If I do pay him now, I have lost all negotiating strength, and I am sure that I will never see him again. If don’t pay him, or pay him a reduced amount, what can he do? File a claim? Contact a collection agency? Hit my credit report?

What can I do if he does any of this? Dispute the charge?

I’m hoping he will fix it. Based on his reaction so far, though, I’d be very surprised if he does anything, much less correct the whole walk.

We were going to contact some other installers this weekend to see what they think and to get quotes on what they would charge to correct the walk.
[/QUOTE]

He can put a lien on your property, which would cause you to pay up, or fight it in court.
If you’re going to have to fight this guy, you’d better start documenting everything that happens. You might try contacting you atty. Gen’s office to see if they can give you some guidance. Most jurisdictions have some kind of licensing body for contractors. If some other contractors agree w/ your assessment of the work, you might try getting them to put it in writing, as a part of their estimate to redo the job. You probably need to notify the guy, in writing, that your unsatisfied w/ the job and intend to withhold payment until repairs are made. Might even be worth a few bucks to have a local atty. write the letter for you, if you can find one to do that. BBB isn’t going to help, except to give you some satisfaction.

8

Any chance you might post a picture of the walk in question?

9

One possible option: send him a check for what you think the work is worth (another $1000? $4000? whatever), and conspicuously mark the check “Payment In Full”. If he deposits or cashes it, he’s accepted it as full payment for the service he’s rendered, and your obligation to pay further is ended. Well, ended so long as he doesn’t repay you the amount of the check within 90 days.

For more info, since your location says Connecticut, see your state’s version of the Uniform Commercial Code. Incidentally, I’m not your lawyer, I’m not licensed in Connecticut, and this isn’t legal advice. I’m just telling you what’s out there.

10

[QUOTE=Max Torque]
One possible option: send him a check for what you think the work is worth (another $1000? $4000? whatever), and conspicuously mark the check “Payment In Full”. If he deposits or cashes it, he’s accepted it as full payment for the service he’s rendered, and your obligation to pay further is ended. Well, ended so long as he doesn’t repay you the amount of the check within 90 days.

For more info, since your location says Connecticut, see your state’s version of the Uniform Commercial Code. Incidentally, I’m not your lawyer, I’m not licensed in Connecticut, and this isn’t legal advice. I’m just telling you what’s out there.
[/QUOTE]

So, if Robby has signed a contract stating that he will pay 10K for the job and now he sends the guy a check, for a lesser amount, notated “paid in full”, that’s going to negate the original contract? Doesn’t sound right to me.

11

[QUOTE=Renee]
Any chance you might post a picture of the walk in question?
[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think we need to see photos.
If it’s really as bad as you say then photos will back you up here. Untill then, I might have to side with the contractor whose done tons of these before over the one disgruntled customer who may or may not know a good paver job when they see it. This still wouldn’t negate your feelings about the quality of the work, but having input from several impartial strangers might ease your mind a bit.

I’m in the construction trade and you’d be surprised at how finicky some clients can be. Just sayin.

12

[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
So, if Robby has signed a contract stating that he will pay 10K for the job and now he sends the guy a check, for a lesser amount, notated “paid in full”, that’s going to negate the original contract? Doesn’t sound right to me.
[/QUOTE]

If there is in fact a written contract – the OP refers to “the terms of the contract”, but it’s unclear whether he’s referring to an actual written contract or a verbal agreement – then this is more complex than something that should be hashed out on a message board. But the UCC gives the option of presenting a check as payment in full, and the contractor has no obligation to accept the check. I’m not suggesting withholding payment in bad faith; I’m saying, write a check for what you think it’s worth as an offer to close the books on this matter. It’s entirely possible that both parties can end up happy without getting all in-yo’-face legal about it.

13

Are contractors licensed in Connecticut? Does he in fact have a contractor’s license?
If the answer to the first question is yes, discuss your case with them, I guarantee that they have heard it before. If the answer to the second question is also a yes, make sure that gets mentioned in your conversation.

14

[QUOTE=Max Torque]
If there is in fact a written contract – the OP refers to “the terms of the contract”, but it’s unclear whether he’s referring to an actual written contract or a verbal agreement – then this is more complex than something that should be hashed out on a message board. But the UCC gives the option of presenting a check as payment in full, and the contractor has no obligation to accept the check. I’m not suggesting withholding payment in bad faith; I’m saying, write a check for what you think it’s worth as an offer to close the books on this matter. It’s entirely possible that both parties can end up happy without getting all in-yo’-face legal about it.
[/QUOTE]

I signed a written proposal. The proposal describes the materials and quantities. At the bottom it states, “The above prices, specifications, and conditions are satisfactory and are hereby accepted. You are authorized to do the work as specified. Payment will be made as outlined above.”

In the upper section, it simply states that they “require a 50% deposit before work can begin; remainder is due upon completion.”

15

[QUOTE=Rick]
Are contractors licensed in Connecticut? Does he in fact have a contractor’s license?
If the answer to the first question is yes, discuss your case with them, I guarantee that they have heard it before. If the answer to the second question is also a yes, make sure that gets mentioned in your conversation.
[/QUOTE]

Yes, he has a contractor’s license.

Oh, I just also found out this week that he is president of the local builder’s association. :smack:

16

[QUOTE=robby]
Yes, he has a contractor’s license.

Oh, I just also found out this week that he is president of the local builder’s association. :smack:
[/QUOTE]

Then go to the contractors board, and take photos with you. Have a detailed complaint written out about what exactly was not done in a workman like manner. make sure your photos support this.
Ask them how to proceed. They probably have a complaint process ready made for cases like yours.

17

[QUOTE=Uncommon Sense]
Yeah, I think we need to see photos.
If it’s really as bad as you say then photos will back you up here. Untill then, I might have to side with the contractor whose done tons of these before over the one disgruntled customer who may or may not know a good paver job when they see it. This still wouldn’t negate your feelings about the quality of the work, but having input from several impartial strangers might ease your mind a bit.

I’m in the construction trade and you’d be surprised at how finicky some clients can be. Just sayin.
[/QUOTE]

OK, you can see photos here.

The walk looks worst in the first photo. Of course this is the perspective that everyone’s going to see it from. You can see the asymmetry of the two curves–the closer curve is much larger than the far curve. You can also see our major complaint–the flattened curve at the far left. There is also a straight section at the near right that doesn’t match the curve at the near left.

The second photo shows the tilted front step–probably no easy fix for this.

The third photo doesn’t actually look too bad, beyond the aforementioned flattened curve (on the near right in this shot). Too bad that nobody’s going to see the walk from this perspective unless they’re standing in the middle of the yard.

The fourth photo shows the back patio. Basically OK, but much higher than expected. I’m going to have to bring in extra loam to blend the slopes better.

In my only conversation with the contractor so far after completion of the job, we asked him to fix the flattened curve at the far end from the driveway (i.e. the far left in the first photo). As I mentioned, he had a fit.

I would like to have the whole center section corrected, however, so that both curves are symmetrical. Since he had a fit at my request to simply fix the flattened curve, I’m sure this will make him completely flip out.

The kicker is that we didn’t even want an “S” curve. We wanted a straight walk or a gentle “C” curve. He insisted that an “S” curve would look better.

All in all, we think the final result looks positively amateurish.

18

[QUOTE=Rick]
Then go to the contractors board, and take photos with you. Have a detailed complaint written out about what exactly was not done in a workman like manner. make sure your photos support this.
Ask them how to proceed. They probably have a complaint process ready made for cases like yours.
[/QUOTE]

Yep, and see if you can file a complaint with the local builder’s association (of which he is the President) as well.

19

Boy that front walk does look like shit.
Take measurements of the width. Lots of them. When you complain to the contractors board, tell them you expected that a professional would make the two sides of the walkway parallel. Show how they are not.

20

[QUOTE=Rick]
Boy that front walk does look like shit.
[/QUOTE]

Not to keep quoting Rick the whole thread, but I agree. That looks like shit. I would probably be ripping that thing up myself. And I would definitely not worry about being a pain-in-the-ass to the contractor about that walk.

My advice: keep making noise until you’re satisfied.