Are you speaking of the polygamy cult where pubescent teens were forcibly married to men three times their age who mistreated them and brainwashed into thinking god would hate them if they tried to escape and live their own lives? Please tell me you don’t consider these people to be truly spiritual just because they’re not making overt shows of anger in front of the camera.
They have learned to avoid using language of outright hostility as a convenient way of deflecting charges of the same. Many religious wrap their hostility in language of peace and love, and then go on to do the opposite. It’s a very clever tactic. In fact I find it very telling that you find their behavior something to emulate.
No harm, no foul. I don’t consider myself one either although admiditedly I don’t posses any thing further than a high school education. It is that I took her comment as another attempt to cast aspersions on lekatt s character in general and in fact I have seen her chastised on many occasions for doing things of a similar nature. I have never taken part in these attacks of her by other posters although it now becomes a bit more clear how these attacks might get thier fuel.
Please note that it is not his claims for NDEs and OBEs that cause a problem. He has on numerous occasions claimed that such NDEs have been verified by science, yet the few rare links he posts are to anecdotes, not scientific examination. He has repeatedly claimed that “science” tries to deny spirituality, yet he has never provided evidence for that claim. (He has occasionally provided quotations from individual scientists who have expressed a lack of belief, but when he has been provided other citations to different scientists who are believers, he simply goes back to repeating that “science” is opposed to spirituality.)
He can believe what he wants. When he makes a claim for a factual event and is asked for a citation, he never provides it. That is not the same thing as simply being criticized for his beliefs.
My posts are full of cites, you know that. Many of those cites are research done by qualified researchers at qualified Universities, and published in Scientific Journals. I can’t help it if people don’t read them or worse say they are not what they really are. Would you like to go through some of them now?
I have no idea whether there was a heart attack connected with the claim for an NDE. Following is what I have found.
[ol][li]lekatt was having a rough time, physically and economically.[/li][li]His doctor warned him of a need for cardiac surgery that lekatt put off.[/li][li]Subsequent to his doctor’s recommendation for surgery, lekatt had an experience one night that he interpreted as an NDE.[/ol][/li]At some point lekatt had a heart attack, but I have found no statement from him that linked the date of the heart attack to the date of the NDE. In fact, in two posts he appears to treat them as separate instances.
Two possibilities occur to me: (1) that lekatt claimed a heart attack in a thread or post that has been lost or (2) his separate references to heart disease and to a heart attack have been conflated in the minds of other posters.
I have no idea which is true, but I would strongly suggest that anyone wishing to pursue the “self-diagnosis” idea provide evidence or drop the subject. It is not proper to demand citations from lekatt for specific claims while failing to provide similar citations to specific claims.
This does not mean that his self-described NDE that has all the characteristics of a simple dream is off limits any more than his persistent claims to have provided scientific citations when he has never provided anything more than anecdotes is off limits. But without evidence that his heart attack was “self-diagnosed” or concurrent with his purported NDE, that topic is now a dead issue.
The following links provide circumstantial evidence for the idea that they might have been linked.
ETA (and repeat) as Moderator:
Without evidence that his heart attack was “self-diagnosed” or concurrent with his purported NDE, that topic is now a dead issue in Great Debates.
[ /Moderating ]
I would love to have you go through any of them and demonstrate that they were scientific studies and not merely anecdotes. A story told by a doctor is no less an anecdote just because the author went to medical school. That is why there are actual protocols and procedures established for conducting scientific research: no person is immune to misinterpretation of events when relying purely on personal memory.
You have never provided a citation to a scientific study that actually attempted to ascertain an NDE or OBE event. You have a handful of questionaires and a few personal reminiscences, but no studies.
If thinking that he had a heart attack because he mentioned heart attacks and heart disease many times when talking about his NDE is a mistake, I apologize, although I thought I remembered him claiming such in the past. This is certainly something lekatt could clear up once and for all in a single post, if he could tell us what it was exactly he was dying of the night of his NDE.
Oh, there’s plenty of proof, there just hasn’t been a trial yet. All the proof will come out in the trial, as it has for these sicko polygamists in the past.
So when the proof comes out, as it always does, will you still hold these reprobates up as examples of purely spiritual people because their hostility is in their behavior instead of in their words?
I’d suggest that anyone who wants to study the issue in a reasonably objective manner should start with The Journal of Near-Death Studies. Abstracts only at the site: yearly subscription starts at $30 US, don’t know why there hasn’t been an issue in a year tho. I’ll note that there was one article in the last issue criticizing aspects of Pam Reynolds’ NDE, which according to the followup abstracts contained several errors.
As for it being a dream, again, what DocCathode said. He says nothing about dying-just that he fell asleep and he encountered a “presence” or whatever.
Now, if those are his beliefs-fine. If that helped him cope with his despression, that’s wonderful. His attitude, however, his arrogance, and the way he seems to look down on us, calling us “close-minded” and such, are what REALLY need work.
FinnAgain, you just need to change the search to “any date”.
Lekatt If you don’t believe in Hercolubus, do you believe Rabolu had genuine OBEs? If not, why not? If his OBE’s were genuine, how do you explain his getting false information?
Again, did you have a heart attack the night of your NDE?