I said I’m not interested in discussing that in this thread. It’s been done before.
(And beer alone is enough to establish a local consciousness. 
)
For how long were you Dead?
If you had even a spark of brain working even a flat line for a short time you would not be truly dead,just near death. Some brain activity is so low(also blood pressure) it doesn’t register on the machines. I learned this while watching my brother in-law in his last stages of life. He flat lined for a few seconds then began to show slight brain activity. If a person(as I understand my doctor) is so near death for a length of time and is revived they can have brain damage. Depending on how long the activity lasts.
What is the difference between animals and people in the biology of either species. Animals are said not to have souls(by some believers) but there is little difference between the death of one or the other.
Monavis
Of course, it’s been done before, science is racing head-long down a dead end street when they preach consciousness is local. They have nothing to back-up what they say and yet, there is a lot of evidence showing consciousness is not local and lives after the dead of the brain and body.
About beer, it is a poison, it affects the body only. It does not change the emotions. It can cause repressed emotions to surface as it damages the brain causing people to think it changes the emotions. People who feel good about themselves do not need to drink. Only people who dislike themselves drink to forget the unsolved problems they hold within. The “I” that we are is complete in knowledge and understanding, that is why spiritual teachers keep teaching to look within to find the real self.
At a certain point - this all turns funny.
Self loathing, un-introspective, blind to the non-corporeal soul, cowardly me…
sigh…
And on the looking inward bit - I agree and disagree. First, it can be proven EASILY that our own brains lie to us. Second, some people are delusional. Third, sometimes external circumstances or tools HELP us to look inward.
I believe NOTDEADNOW is gone, I hope she comes back. You need to read about near death experiences in order to understand all that ground has been covered many times. Everything is consciousness, the animals have a spiritual nature as well as us humans. There have been accounts of experiencers being dead for as long as three days, but most are dead only a few minutes or hours. Some were sent to the morgue, one has a copy of his dead certificate framed, they wouldn’t let him keep the original. It is easy to tell an experiencer, they don’t think like the general population, they are different in their beliefs and actions. I can tell an experiencer in just one post or a few words. Notdeadnow is definately an experiencer.
Our brains do not lie to us, we might lie to ourselves, but the brain does not speak. Yes, some people are delusional, and some just forget, so.
Some steal, is this a world of thieves, some kill, is this a world of killers. No. Neither is personal experience unreliable, everyone uses it everyday, you couldn’t get up and get to work within it, nor live very long if you forgot how to drive.
Skeptics are negative about most things, they doubt almost everything including their own experiences and the experiences of others. They demand proof of the smallest events. Doubt is a subset of fear. Skeptics live in the fear of self-doubt without any purpose or meaning to their lives. They ridicule those who don’t agree with them and call them ignorant. But those they call ignorant are living positive lives of faith, and love. They do not doubt themselves or others, they know the world is neither all good or all bad, so they must sort out the good and live in love and peace with all others.
Did you read the summary the scientist gave at the end of it all?
I’m going with the easy argument… Optical illusions. Say with the funny lines or the colors that seem different, but aren’t. Optical illusions are so ubiquitous I find it hard to believe you haven’t seen these.
Additionally, I find this whole thing rather bizarre. I mean… does the brain just perform the “lower” functions of life while the soul is something else? If so… wouldn’t some specific region of the brain be the antenna? Is it not more economical to believe that if such a region (or collection of regions) creates the sensation of soul, then it is THE source, not the receptor?
Actually, I didn’t read the end of it, and didn’t realize it was four years old. Dr Greyson now collects NDEs that have been verified by other doctors and researchers and wouldn’t say that now. The University of Virginia psychology dept. is where you will find him.
http://www.nderf.org/greyson_interview.htm
This is more up to date.
It is not “more up to date”-your link is to the 2004 interview. And it is still useless.
thank you
I can’t give all the details on how the spiritual “I” connects with and works the body, I just know that it does. Millions of people have experienced being out of their bodies. While out they can still see and hear and move around with all their faculties in tact. This is not new, there are accounts of this kind of experience in all of history.
Some researchers have used the analogy of the television to the signal, others an interface between programmer (spirit) and the computer. Whatever the method it works well.
Research on near death experiences have shown this to be a real event due to the accurate reportings of the experiencers.
There is so much value available in seeking the inner “I.”
I noticed the Doctor Grayson said"Near Death" a long way from being Dead. Once you are dead you stay dead. So there must be some life in your body or you could not come back. I doubt that life pops in and out like a rabbit from a cage.
Death is final, flat line does not mean all life has left one’s body. If the brain does not get enough oxygen for a few minuets it isn’t necessarly dead yet and that is why CPR works in the cases where there is still a spark of life.
Monavis
Not all, but most near death experiencers are clinically dead when they have their experience. That means no brain activity, no heart activity. This is the definition of death. In many cases no cpr is being given, the experiencer is sent back to the body by a spiritual being.
Near death experiences are real, research has proven they are real. Science is teaching misinformation about consciousness and standing in the way of real cures for those with mental and emotional problems. Chemicals will not, and have not, cured anything, it is working with belief systems and controling/replacing negative thoughts that cure.
For the last time, the topic of this thread is not “near-death experiences”. If you wish to start a thread about your bad dreams, do it elsewhere.
I notice you also use “near death” It may seem they are dead,but they are not. One can believe a spirit sends them back but there is no proof that a spirit (Invisable being) exists.
Because a machine cannot detect a brain or heart activity because it is too low( as in the case of my brother in-law) it doesn’t mean all life has left the body and they can sometimes be resuscitated. If all life is gone they cannot.
Years ago there were people who had been buried alive that doesn’t happen today.
I know this is your belief and if it helps you go ahead and believe it. What ever helps to make your life a better one as far as I am concerned it is okay. A person’s beliefs are strictly their own.
Monavis
Thank you for being respectful of others beliefs. With me it is not a belief, but a knowing, I experienced it personally and more than just once. I did not choose the experience, but am grateful for the learning experience, it changed my life for the better.
Yes, they used to tie bells above their graves for them to ring. It doesn’t happen now due to imbalming fluids, but people sometimes do “wake up” in the morgue. People have been brought back to life after by surgeons after performing a type of surgery where the patient’s mental and physical activity is stopped. Check out the Pam Reynolds surgery.
You are right, I can’t prove the existence of spiritual beings, but millions of people have seen them, so I am in good company.
Since computers are programmed by humans wouldn’t it be necessary for the programmer to see 200 moves ahead. Having played tournament chess for a number of years and won a trophy or two, I seriously doubt any one, computer or not could have a sure win in 200 moves. The possibile moves in a chess game are enormous, check it out.
Mods, I hope this is okay, but I have a question for lekatt: Why don’t you ever post more about yourself? Do you have any hobbies? What sports teams do you root for? Do you have certain types of music you like, or where do you work? What’s your favorite movie?
Things like that. Because I only see you posting about spiritual things.
You can prove what is known, but not just a belief. How can you see an invisible being? I know this can happen in one’s imagination, but not in reality. At some of the Catholic sighting’s of what they call the Virgin Mary only the person with the vision sees so it is in their mind, not in reality.
Millions of people once believed the world was flat, and hundreds claim to have seen the Sun spin in the sky at Fatima, yet it can be proven that the Sun did not spin or come closer to earth. Numbers do not make something so. There are millions who have not had such experiences that also doesn’t prove anything. I have had experiences in my life time that were unusual but I learned they were in my own mind, and at the time I needed something to cling to.
People can have near death experiences but once they are “dead” they cannot experience anything.
Monavis