lekatt's recent hijacks (removed from original threads)

[lekatt]

[QUOTE=Left Hand of Dorkness]
Okay. That was the best you could do. Now we can make progress.

You said you would and could post links to the sort of peer-reviewed research I asked for. In reality, the best you could do was to pose an editorial written by one of the researchers, which was NOT was you said you would and could do. It appears, although I don’t want to assume, that you genuinely cannot see the difference between a peer-reviewed research study and an editorial, as long as they’re written by the same person.

Your lack of distinction between the two makes it impossible, apparently, for you to keep your word about what you would do.

And post 425 contained zero links. If you’re referring to your original list of 53 or whatever links, I was only able to find one peer-reviewed study among them, and then only by digging three layers deep into one of the links. If you’re referring to your repeated anonymous anecdotes, those are not studies.

So we’re on the same page at last. You cannot provide peer-reviewed studies that support your claim. As I stated a long time ago (and I believe you agreed), that seriously weakens your assertion that mainstream science is increasingly accepting the nonphysical nature of consciousness.

Daniel
[/QUOTE]

I don’t have a lot of time now. No one ever said a personal experience was a study, no one. What I called studies, were studies, they probable would not meet the criteria you expect, but they did show a non-local consciousness. They are not anonymous anecdotes, they are events of great value to the experiencer that changed their lives for the better. We just don’t agree. I accept personal experiences as valid unless I have some reason to doubt them. People who have NDEs come back to life more honest and willing to love than ever before. I see no reason for them, especially thousands of them, to lie about what happened. As for mistaken, no, not that either, just too many of them in agreement. Now as for scientists, those doing the research became believers in the process, they were not before. Skeptics like Karl Jansen and Susan Blackmore has softened their skepticism in recent years with the results of the studies. I get telephone calls from doctors asking about the experiences they have seen on their operating tables. Yes, I believe the tone is changing, because as more people truly examine the evidence they will see it is good evidence. All I have time for now.

[CurtC]

The lekatt merry-go-round:

10 Claim Science has proven that consciousness survives death.
20 When it's pointed out that this has in now way been shown with any kind 
of scientific rigor, claim that science is stupid.
30 GOTO 10

[DiggitCamara]

[QUOTE=CurtC]
The lekatt merry-go-round:

10 Claim Science has proven that consciousness survives death.
20 When it's pointed out that this has in now way been shown with any kind 
of scientific rigor, claim that science is stupid.
30 GOTO 10

[/QUOTE]

You left out:

25 GOSUB 35
35 i=RANDOM(20)
40 j=1
45 WHILEi<j
50 Tell one of the assorted anecdotes about NDE's
60 END WHILE
70 RETURN

[lekatt]

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
You left out:

25 GOSUB 35
35 i=RANDOM(20)
40 j=1
45 WHILEi<j
50 Tell one of the assorted anecdotes about NDE's
60 END WHILE
70 RETURN

[/QUOTE]

Come on guys, Tom assured me no one made fun of my posts.

[lekatt]

[QUOTE=Guinastasia]
That’s not what I said. I was pointing out that personal experiences are not necessarily reliable. I also pointed out to you that it’s possible that some of the stories sent into you could be people trolling.

I’d also like a cite for the claim that they have found Bigfoot’s DNA.
[/QUOTE]

If you know your subject, it is very hard to be fooled, there have been some attempts, I don’t post everything sent to me. I can’t understand why such a deep mistrust of people and their experiences. I have found some people can learn from the experiences of others and don’t need to repeat their mistakes, and some people can’t learn from others repeating all mistakes. It is just part of life.

[lekatt]

Somebody will ask so I will provide the links:

Karl Janson

Erowid Ketamine Vault : Ketamine and Quantum Psychiatry, by Karl Jansen

Susan Blackmore
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,23592269-5006012,00.html

UK academic and sceptic Susan Blackmore has conducted much research into near-death experiences (NDEs).

She writes: “The NDE does seem to produce profound and positive personality changes. After this extraordinary experience people claim that they are no longer so motivated by greed and material achievement but are more concerned about other people and their needs.”

This quote goes to the honesty of life changes experienced during a NDE. Wouldn’t it be nice if we could artificially induce them. We could bring peace and love to the planet in a couple of years.
Suicide
The below experience is one of my favorites, between the experiencer and myself, we have pulled back quite a few souls from the edge of suicide. If you want to talk to him write me.

Life can be very, very hard for some of us. The pain of life can become unbearable and at such times it seems that the only way out is to kill oneself. I know this feeling because I have killed myself. My suicide was not a cry for help. I made sure that nobody was going to find me before I died. Mine was a genuine and sincere attempt to kill myself. I was finished, I could continue no more and I followed the only course of action that I thought was right. I took a massive overdose.

Before you die there is the possibility that things could improve, one way or another. Once you’ve killed yourself though, you can’t turn back. Not unless a miracle happens. Such a miracle did happen to me when I made my suicide attempt. Because while I did certainly succeed in dying and leaving this world, I was assured by people in the next world that I’d made a big mistake and was sent back into my body, which only by a miracle of God, revived itself without any medical assistance.

My suicide was back in 1976. I was very lonely and depressed and quite simply did not want to continue living nor did I see any purpose in my living. My life seemed a futile and empty existance. I felt it was time to say goodbye to this world. Late in the evening I took a massive overdose, put the Pink Floyd, “Wish You Were Here” album on and settled down to die quietly.

Three days later I found myself lying on the living room floor. I couldn’t stand up and was so weak I could only crawl. But I was alive. I remembered having left my body and spending quite some time, (I don’t know how long but it seemed like a long time) in a place somewhere, sitting and listening to some people talking to me. I felt relaxed in this place and with these people, They were very nice and understanding people and they were telling me that this was not the way it had to be, that I did not have to kill myself and that I could go back and live again. They totally reassured me that I was supposed to be alive and there was a purpose for it. There was no judgement there from these people, only love and compassion. These people seemed to know me and I got the distinct impression that they were aware of my life and all of the problems I had been going through. They knew with utter certainty that my life was worth living and that I should go back into my body again. They spoke about my life with confidence. I was something special to these people and in their eyes, I was worthy of having my life back. They treated me with the utmost respect and kindness.

So when I found myself back in my body, alive and lying on my living room floor, I was very grateful and happy to be back here again. I had been given a second chance. Later that day I was taken to the hospital and when I told a doctor how many tablets I’d taken he exclaimed, “You should be dead!”

After this suicide NDE I realised that I was not alone. Those people in the spiritual dimension were aware of my life and my every struggle through it. Imagine that while you are in pain and turmoil, that there are people who are watching you and begging you to carry on, not to give up. These people cannot contact you directly because you have to overcome these terrible problems without their help. For they are the people in the spirit world who are invisible to us. And yet these people are hoping and praying that you find the strength to carry on. They don’t want you to give up because they know that if you just carry on a while longer, you will overcome some of these terrible problems and find some respite. They know that you will gain more by simply hanging in there, rather than giving up and taking your own life.

It may seem impossible at times, it may seem pointless to carry on but believe me, I’ve been there and tried suicide. Thankfully I was shown by those people in the spirit world, that suicide is not the answer and does not solve anything. I was lucky because I was sent back to continue my life. The problems I had been suffering from prior to my suicide did not all disappear overnight. However, the realisation that my life was worth living, enabled me to tackle my problems and not just give up.

Finally, I would be happy to correspond with anyone who wants to drop me an email. I am not a saint or a do-gooder but since I have done the final deed, survived and seen the folly of it, I may be able to relate to how you are feeling. Hang in there…

[DiggitCamara]

[QUOTE=lekatt]
Come on guys, Tom assured me no one made fun of my posts.
[/QUOTE]

Sadly, we’re not making fun of your posts.

We are merely describing them.

[Cervaise]

[QUOTE=lekatt]
It is just part of life.
[/QUOTE]
Don’t you mean, “it’s just part of life after death”? Or, I guess, “part of a dream about life after death”?

[Fear_Itself]

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I can’t understand why such a deep mistrust of people and their experiences.
[/QUOTE]
Nor can I understand the your credulous acceptance of whatever anyone tells you. Have you no standards for verisimilitude? Or is everything to be taken at face value. If I told you whales speak French at the bottom of the sea, are you likely to give me the benefit of the doubt?

[Vorpal_Blade]

[QUOTE=lekatt]
… There have been accounts of experiencers being dead for as long as three days…]
[/QUOTE]

Wasn’t there some clown in the middle east a couple thousand years ago?

[Vorpal_Blade]

[QUOTE=monavis]
If the brain does not get enough oxygen for a few minutes…
[/QUOTE]

…you get the sort of horsepucky lekatt is pushing.

[Vorpal_Blade]

[QUOTE=monavis]
…what we believe happens in our mind and all that we do as humans, however when we die our mind is also gone so there is no more thoughts.

Monavis
[/QUOTE]

…or happenings.

[lekatt]

[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
Nor can I understand the your credulous acceptance of whatever anyone tells you. Have you no standards for verisimilitude? Or is everything to be taken at face value. If I told you whales speak French at the bottom of the sea, are you likely to give me the benefit of the doubt?
[/QUOTE]

I take most things at face value until proven different. I have faith in life and people. I guess I am like Forest Gump. Not a bad guy. As for the whales, was this a physical experience or a spiritual experience.

[lekatt]

[QUOTE=DiggitCamara]
Sadly, we’re not making fun of your posts.

We are merely describing them.
[/QUOTE]

I told Tom I was merely describing them also, but he didn’t believe me.

[lekatt]

[QUOTE=bikebloke]
…you get the sort of horsepucky lekatt is pushing.
[/QUOTE]

The word is horsehockey, let’s be accurate.

[lekatt]

[QUOTE=Cervaise]
Don’t you mean, “it’s just part of life after death”? Or, I guess, “part of a dream about life after death”?
[/QUOTE]

No I didn’t mean anything other than what I said.

[Fear_Itself]

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I take most things at face value until proven different.
[/QUOTE]
And what do you accept as proof that someones’s claim for a personal experience is probably false?

[Cervaise]

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I take most things at face value until proven different. I have faith in life and people.
[/QUOTE]
I have an eleven inch penis and a house full of endlessly horny supermodels. Send me a hundred dollars and I can do the same for you.

[Garula]

[QUOTE=lekatt]
I take most things at face value until proven different. I have faith in life and people. I guess I am like Forest Gump. Not a bad guy. As for the whales, was this a physical experience or a spiritual experience.
[/QUOTE]

There are some guys from Nigeria who would love to get their hands on your email address.

[Fear_Itself]

[QUOTE=lekatt]
As for the whales, was this a physical experience or a spiritual experience.
[/QUOTE]
I heard about it from a guy named Allardyce P. Merriweather. He swears it is true.