See, lekatt, the problem here is that what you’ve provided isn’t evidence - it’s just words on your website. I could go put together a website that’s full of all the opposite words, and it would be equally valid. You need some hard, valid, real evidence. Surely you can see the difference. If I attempted to present what you’ve given me at a scientific conference, I would rightly be laughed out. Not because my theories are just too far from the mainstream, or because they’re all close-minded idiots, but because I’ve offered nothing but words.
By the way, I’m sorry if I’ve inadvertently gotten your hopes up. I have no real interest in debating your actual theories or beliefs or whatever you want to call them. My interest is purely educational. I’m trying to get you to understand why no one will take your pet ideas seriously, and what you need to change if you want to have a real discussion. If you offer up something real and substantial for debate, I guarantee you’ll have people here willing to chew it over. I’m training as a scientist. Sloppy, unfocused, illogical thinking is beginning to irritate me more and more, and I have this urge to try to, well, fight ignorance wherever I can. I realize this may be a hopeless effort, but it’s worth a paragraph or two.
In Lekatt’s defense, there was a pretty good documentary on this stuff a few years ago, it’s called “The Sixth Sense” and was created by the well respected researcher M. Night Shyamalan.
As I have said many times, not my research, not my ideas, I guess you never got to the real research. It’s Ok, most don’t. I don’t have pet ideas, I have first-hand up-front real experience. Forget it. The one thing you don’t understand is that all those researchers went in as skeptics and came out as believers. It takes some time and effort to study unfortunately.
Here is another doctor telling his story before the United Nations.
The day will come when near death experience research will overwhelm mainstream science. Then we can get on with helping people in ways that are meaningful.
Heck, I can buy that medical science and its practitioners make mistakes. I’m just unclear what the higher authority is that is apparantly over-ruling them.
“Whoo-hoo-hoo, look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only MOSTLY dead. There’s a big difference between mostly dead and all dead. Mostly dead is slightly alive. With all dead, well, with all dead there’s usually only one thing you can do. … Go through his clothes and look for loose change.”
And since she no longer had a brain, she no longer had an interface for her spirit, unless that USB Blue-tooth disguised as a butt plug was the interface.
Since she no longer had an interface for her spirit, there was no reason to keep the rest of her body percolating, unless you can prove that a human brain can grow out of nothing. Please provide a cite that proves that a human’s brain can grow out of nothing.
Ya know what? This is “supposed to be” Great Debates. To me, that means people take a side in the argument, and use logic - cold hard logic - and facts - cold hard documented facts - to present differing views. It is not the place to just make up or parrot a bunch of new age spiritualitizational jibber jabber, and then expect people to believe you, no matter what the evidence, indicators, documentation or just simple logic dictate. Sadly, too many of the threads here devolve into just that. It’s garbage.
TWEEEET!!
This is futile (for parties on both sides) and can only end in tears.
lekatt either genuinely fails to understand science or really does not care to understand science, so he will continually push anecdotes emanating from people who have a science background who are not engaging in scientific research and his opponents will continually badger him until one or both sides begin edging into personal insults.
OK. After some staff discussion and in light of the fact that this thread was started after the express instructions of Marley, moderating the other thread, I am going to open this thread, again.
HOWEVER, there is still a problem.
After repeatedly hijacking threads with erroneous claims that “science” supported his particular views of life after death, citing only the anecdotes on his own web site, lekatt was told to refrain from posting claims that “science” had done any such thing unless he could provide a citation to an actual scientific experiment.
By engaging in this thread, we must either give lekatt permission to cite the anecdotes on his web site or else tell him that he cannot post in a thread opened to ask him questions. Since there appears to be an interest in giving him a forum, I do not want to see any whining or attacks on **lekatt ** just because he is unable to support his claims. If you do not think this is fair, then just stay out of this thread.
lekatt is under the impression that a doctor interviewing a bunch of people who have been in induced comas or in unconscious states and asking them what they “remember” about that period is the same sort of science as actually determining whether a person has recognized outside stimuli when they were clinically dead. Nothing is going to change his belief, so if you want to engage him at that level, you do so with this advance warning.
[ /Moderating ]
Don’t you think it more likely that the dead people who woke up weren’t actually dead in the first place?
You are aware that the different parts of the brain do different things, right? Given that, which part is this interface with our spirit? If there are no limitations in the spirit world, why don’t we just ask Terri Schiavo for the answers?
What would you say are the differences between “good science” and “bad science”?
Such as? What possible good could research into near death experiences do? What can it predict?
For this to happen, it would have to be overwhelming in its very nature, and if this were so, nothing could stop it (or could already have stopped it). What’s preventing it from overwhelming mainstream science right now?
Lol! tomndebb made a mistake Thus proving that he’s a spiritual being; that vampires can arise from their own ashes, kind of like a postmodernist can disappear up their own asshole…
Seriously though, frame the debate thusly: Lekatt claims direct experience. Others ask for cites. But scientific evidence will be expressed in terms of objective reality. MRI’s, cat scans, x-rays, electron microscopes, neuron photography and all that. However, even mapping every last atom of a human body does not provide an explanation for subjective experience. How is this even possible?
Scientists: explain. Then maybe we can tease Lekatt’s experience into the realm of science after all.
Thus proving that he’s a spiritual being; that vampires can arise from their own ashes, kind of like a postmodernist can disappear up their own asshole…