This comes from this thread:
Degrance replied with this
This goes on for the second half of the thread. What do you think? I’m just pissed that they are ruining a great thread over there.
How are they ruining it? Respectfully asked.
It is this really cool thread about jaw-dropping experiences. But every other post is people arguing on how old your child should be when they stop breastfeeding. Plus they keep copy and pasting parts of others conversation and posting links that have nothing to do with the OP.
I usually keep goiong until I’m full.
What? It wasn’t? Oh.
[sub]never mind[/sub]
“length of breastfeeding”. Well, for me personally, I feel if the breast has gotten to knee length, probably breast feeding should cease.
(for the humor impaired, that was a joke)
Breast feeding is a highly personal topic, and I, for one, have never presumed to ask/tell/comment on anyone’s choices.
It irritated me to no end when folks asked about why I wasn’t breastfeeding. (well, my son is 16 now and the subject rarely comes up anymore, but anyhow)…
Sorry to hear that thread got hijacked.
I’m gonna remember you…
:D:D:D
Thank you
Thanks for the pointer- I had one of my own to post, I found. Good thread.
You’re right- they (were) screwing it up. Seem to have stopped now though…
For what it’s worth, my thoughts:
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Although LLL is very fond of touting the “worldwide age of weaning”, I haven’t found any other sources of that claim that didn’t take it from LLL. Furthermore, it changes. Sometimes they say four years, sometimes 4.2, sometimes 4.7… I don’t believe that a worldwide “breastfeeding census” is even possible, and I certainly see no evidence that it has been carried out.
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The story does not ring true. The mother had no milk, but the child asked to nurse because she was thirsty? What does Mom have in there instead of milk, grape juice? Furthermore, the human body does not work that way; as long as the child is nursing, there will be milk.
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Sorry to say, Europe is not the breastfeeding paradise it was painted as in that thread. Even in Scandinavia, which has excellent breastfeeding rates, it’s rare for a child to be nursing past 2… at least for any mother to admit that her child is nursing past 2…
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Children should be breastfed for at least a year and as much longer as both mother and child want to. The healthful properties of breastmilk don’t stop just because the child has been alive for twelve months, nor does it become “sick” just because the baby has become a toddler. Some people have really got to get over the titty obsession. Yes, they are wonderful toys, and they do really interesting things to a tight sweater, but they also feed children.
Well, god. Now and then, the time spent wading deeper into search engine pages pays off. You want hard data on breastfeeding worldwide? Latch On To This site. I couldn’t believe the depth of data. It only addresses the developing world, however. It’s still a great resource for this debate ;).
I’ll try to reverse back into the thread that caused this O.P. to post here, and send this link into that one too. Won’t change anyone’s opinions, I’d think. It will allow hard data to enter a volatile argument.
And now, for my personal .02 cents. My kids are both adopted. I was horrified-yes, horrified- at how militant some adoptive parents’ groups were about urging all new adoptive parents to prepare for their babies’ arrivals by making their bodies lactate. Yes, such a thing IS done, IS possible. But…to what end? Antibodies, etc.- are best passed along when it’s the biological mother who is nursing her own offspring. AND- in many but surely not all cases, the baby is not adopted within the first few weeks of birth. In that case, isn’t the time window closed on the most important aspects of breastfeeding- the foundation of a strong immune system? <sigh>. Apparently there are even devices that would have allowed my baby to suckle on my nipple, and have a second thingy in his/her mouth that actually provided nutrition to him/her. <<shudder>> What would they do about the hair?? But oh boy, did some people push us to at least have my wife lactate. I’m with the rest of you here who say that it’s a purely personal decision. You don’t like the idea of a birth mother nursing her 3 year old? **DON’T STARE THEN !! **. ( I referred to my kid up there as he/she not out of some P.C. thing, but because I adopted one of each 
)
Sincerely, Your Non-Lactating But Still Inexorably Fascinated By The Human Breast T.M.,
Cartooniverse
Oooops. Forgot to insert this cite into the adoption comment area up there. In case I sounded like a * complete* lunatic there ( and, it’s been known to happen ), get a load of This.
Cartooniverse
tubagirl, I too wanted to point out that while seeing a child breastfeed at that age might be shocking, it’s not “wrong” or creepy. But I didn’t–because I thought it was a thread hijack. Besides which, even I would be shocked to see a child of that age nursing * in public*. It’s not shocking that he’s not weaned–it’s just very unusual to *see[/] it. I never got back to check how the thread did.
I’ll get back there soon and see what happened. I am sorry they hijacked it. However, I understand how hard it is not to jump in if you’re informed about BF and see someone see what you think may be a misinformed comment. Although I understand moms who don’t BF feel pressure and judgment, in truth there is a lot of pressure the other way too–to wean. Even pediatricians start leaning on moms sometimes, against the policies of their own organization (AAP). I’m not a real gung-ho “Lactivist” myself, but I do believe that one VERY key thing to making society more breastfeeding-friendly is to address ignorance bpeople on message boards. Hijacking isn’t appropriate–starting a new thread, however, would have been good for the people there to do.
Did you want to make THIS a breastfeeding debate? Or should this thread be titled “Hijacking Bites” or somesuch?
I’d be delighted to debate breastfeeding age.
I’ll say this: IF I were still nursing a 4 year old, you can bet I’d make it a private thing. It’s just too “out there” for our society, and I think you’re setting your kid up for some hostile reactions if you don’t keep it a home event.
<—putting on Well Mannered Yet Eager Cap. Cranky? Iffen I stop by your home, could we have an event? :D:D
Cartooniverse
tubagirl, et al, I apologize for contributing to the hijack on the other thread.
Hello, Cranky, you idiot? PREVIEW!
Cartooniverse, you are just so damn cool it could make my heart stop.
Imagine! Introducing data to a debate that sorely needed it.
Waaaaah! Waaaaaaaaaaaaah! I could have stuffed some data in too, but I couldn’t in the other debate (it was a hijack) and as for this thread, I thought this was a rant about hijacking, not breastfeeding.
Another lost opportunity for a pat on the head, goddamnit.
BTW, Cartooniverse, it’s wrong–bizarre, I think–for anyone to pressure you to force lactation in the case of adoption. It’s possible; I’ve seen it done; but damn it takes a lot of work and still no guarantees it’s going to work. I don’t think I’d be up for it myself. The people who do–wow. BUT–it’s a misconception that the window for benefits is mainly lost after the first few weeks. While there are some unique benefits of early milk to newborns, there are plenty of good things that come from BF later. I think that much of the rah-rah stuff emphasizes the newborn stage because it’s motivating to new parents to get it off to a good start. It’s hard to make up for it if you DON’T get off to a good start. I’m Exhibit A on that score.
Piggy-backing onto Cranky’s post here… Yup, yup. There’s a tendency to really play up the benefits of breastfeeding in the first few weeks, both to give new moms encouragement to get started, and because many breastfeeding advocates feel it’s better to get moms-to-be to try breastfeeding for a few weeks (and hope they’ll decide to keep going) than to freak them out by talking about nursing for six months or a full year. Even if they quit, four or six weeks or whatever is better than nothing at all, goes the logic. Unfortunately that’s led to a common perception that the maternal antibodies are all transferred over, assembly-line fashion, in the first few weeks. Doesn’t work that way. A lactating mother produces antibodies against whatever infections are currently in the environment, and passes them on to her child. Those antibodies won’t last forever, but they give the child protection until his own immune system is mature enough to do its work.
The mechanism by which breastfeeding leads to a healthier immune system later in life isn’t well-understood, but it doesn’t seem to be the case that there’s a one-shot window of opportunity.
I have a tremendous amount of respect for any adoptive mother who gets breastfeeding to work, and would never fault an adoptive mom who decides not to try. It takes a lot of time and commitment, and most of the time the baby’s going to need some formula anyway. It’s hard to make enough milk without ever having been pregnant.
No, my wrath is saved for biological moms who refuse to even try breastfeeding because “I don’t want to be tied down like that” or “It’s just disgusting, like an animal” or (yes I have seriously heard this excuse) “The baby’s going to be a boy and I don’t want him to see my breasts!” :eek:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan *
**
[QUOTE BTW, Cartooniverse, it’s wrong–bizarre, I think–for anyone to pressure you to force lactation in the case of adoption. It’s possible; I’ve seen it done; but damn it takes a lot of work and still no guarantees it’s going to work. I don’t think I’d be up for it myself. The people who do–wow. BUT–it’s a misconception that the window for benefits is mainly lost after the first few weeks. While there are some unique benefits of early milk to newborns, there are plenty of good things that come from BF later. I think that much of the rah-rah stuff emphasizes the newborn stage because it’s motivating to new parents to get it off to a good start. It’s hard to make up for it if you DON’T get off to a good start. I’m Exhibit A on that score.
**[/QUOTE]
Cranky AND Flodnak, I’m in agreement with you here. I truly didn’t know that that supposed “window” is a falsehood. Thank you 
.
As for the entire idea, let me clarify a wee bit. ( First of all, I know this is deep into hijack territory, but here we are, enjoying a conversation, so whatthefuck). I’ve always found the idea of other people trying hard to press THEIR agendas upon me to be upsetting. I’ve never fathered a kid, so I won’t speak out of my ass on what that must be like ( Another Cart first:D ). However, having adopted both of 'em, breastfeeding didn’t seem a part of the realm to me. I guess I NEED to think that it didn’t harm them any. Really, I’m not trying to hijack this deep into LaLeche territory, just explain that my reasoning for the rant up there wasn’t so much contempt for anyone who has the intestinal…well…lactational fortitude to TRY to get their bodies to produce breast milk, but rather for the people who wanted-needed-urged ME and the Wifestress to do it.
And, lest we forget our most humble roots here in the Pit, the topic of male lactation in mammals WAS covered by Unca Cecil in **More of The Straight Dope **, Pp. 321-322. I found it in the archives, but can’t see a way to link to the actual column. It’s also got a totally hilarious illustration by Slug to accompany. Perhaps the books aren’t readable on the Web, just the indexis thereof/therein/therefore/therethere.
<–leaning over, patting Cranky on her adorable skull. There, there… 
Cartooniverse
I noticed you trying to look down my blouse when you did that, BTW. Just so you know you weren’t getting away with anything.
I too am enjoying this hijack/discussion/whatever it is, even if it’s not at all pit-like. It’s not a myth, of course, that are some pretty cool things that happen with breastmilk in the early days which can’t be duplicated. There’s the colostrum thing, and also I believe that a newborn’s intestinal walls are somewhat more permeable than they should be. Breastmilk helps them close down right, in a way that formula doesn’t.
Our son started life with formula and didn’t breastfeed until he was a week old, so we missed out on these things, too. Hell, formula was pretty much MADE for situations like yours, Cartoon (birth mom not around to breastfeed) so you and the wife have nothing to apologize for (something you seem to be well aware of, I’m pleased to see).
I actually have some beefs with LLL, even though I was a card-carrying member and support their overall principles. I think their “grass-roots” approach is effective in some ways, but they could do so much more. They refuse political activism and public affairs efforts, at a time when I think they are most needed. And I think the grassroots format also leads to breastfeeding misinformation and myths being proliferated by leaders and members who don’t stay up-to-date. They also aren’t much help to people who supplement. I realize that for reasons flodnak stated so well, it’s not in the interest of breastfeeding to make supplementation easy, but the fact is, many people have to or choose to. In the absence of good information about how to do both, early weaning all too often becomes the next step.
Oooh, Cranky could easily get on a roll here!
** BUSTED !!! ** :eek:
Cartooniverse