Let go get rich cutting the nutsacks off orphans!--Or, Humanity sucks!

[erislover]

@Achilles

We must not let ourselves fall into the trap of criticising one culture from inside another one.

There is no other way to do it.

This is the foundation of intolerence and war.

I am perfectly happy realizing both that my views are relative to my environment and that the other people are wrong. I don’t see why we should tolerate another culture just because they are another culture. By every standard I have of measuring wrong, cutting of nutsacks is fucking wrong. My limited view does not compell me towards inaction. That way lies getting your nuts chopped off.

[Chotii]

@spooje

Well, female circumcision is against Federal law (and 16 State laws as well) because it’s barbaric. Male circumcision, though unnessecary, is harmless. It is not mutilation, despite the hysterics you hear from some folks.

If you can’t see where what’s going on in Africa is worse, what with the orphans being mutilated and actually dying as a result, well then there’s not much to say for you.

I can see that dead is dead.

However, I thought the original flame here had to do with the removal of body parts without consent, NOT with the fact that evil people were killing children in yet another horrific way, and finding a way to profit off it too.

I find both of these repugnant for different reasons, and with different degrees of, er, repugnance. But I do find them both repugnant.

[smiling_bandit]

A nation that snubs UN principles and commitments when it’s convenient has little moral authority to invoke UN principles and commitments when it sees something it doesn’t like.

From what I’ve sen, every nation, most certainly including France and Germany, pays atttention to the UN only to lie to it or give it the finger. The US is just more honest about doing the latter. Actually, France likes to pretend to speak for it while stabbing it in the back.

Shodan, the idea that you can ignore the fact that who we are culturally, militarily and politically is the cause of global hatred of us is absolutely mind blowing. In a childish display to you, I will reciprocate the middle finger extension.

ME terrorism is no response to some mythical evil Imperialism of the US. They hate our culture and the fact their own people like it a lot; they hate the fact that they are weak while we are strong; and they hate the fact that we are always in their faces no matter what we do. You are right about one thing: they hate us for what we are. But I’d ather be hated by men like that than beloved.

Am I the first person in this thread to point out that the Catholic church, for more than a thousand years, castrated young boys so that they’d keep their pretty soprano singing voices. That way their choirs would sound real pretty.

I think we are owed a little gratitude for stopping it eventually. It was not a rare practice in the world’s civilized states. Heck, the Chinese had a whole [small] eunuch caste!

I didn’t think anybody outside conservatives’ caricature of extreme liberals held such beliefs

Sadly, no. We didn’t make up those “caricatures”; they tend to drop by on their own.

I’m disinclined to join a thread that has already fallen prey to Godwin’s Law, but I thought I’d that the premise – that organized groups are castrating orphans and selling the results to willing buyers – sounds like an urban legend to me.

I dunno. Given what people are willing ingest in this world I’m not all that surprised. Some correlation would be nice, but not easy.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@Achilles

So you freely admit that telling foreign peoples how to behave is America’s “culture”. .

Actually, I’d say just the opposite: “ethnocentrism” is a uniquely Western concept, and it’s part of our culture. Most other cultures take it as a given that the way they do things is better; in other words, practically all other cultures are “ethnocentric.” Would you criticize them for that?

If not, why would you criticize members of your own culture for being ethnocentric?

I do think Gawd has somewhat made it clear that he considers this atrocity to be, well, an atrocity – what he’s really objecting to is the paternalistic tone in some of the posts here. My problem is that i’ve not seen the paternalism. Gawd, would you mind quoting specific passages you consider paternalistic? I suspect you jumped the gun a bit on that.

What I find truly paternalistic, and it’s almost exclusively hard-core liberals who make this mistake, is the idea that other cultures don’t have standards of honesty, compassion, and altruism like we have here in the West, and so we should grade their activities on a curve. Some monster who cuts the genitalia off of kids for profit doesn’t get any kind of free moral pass just because they happen to be doing it in a different culture: they’re still a monster for what they’re doing.

I think Gawd has recognized that; I’m not sure if Achilles has.

Daniel

[GaWd]

Daniel,

I’ve already quote several passages that I found to be truly nauseating in thtis thread. And yes, it is mainly the paternalistic tone of certain posters which I object to.

That is all I will say.

Sam

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

@JRDelirious

Castrating children or skinning people to make magic charms; or setting brides on fire because you’re dissatisfied with them; is wrong, criminal, an atrocity. The “belief” that leads to that IS just plain FALSE, STUPID, INVALID. Whatever “cultural value” moves people to do this can be extirpated from the face of the Earth and the common heritage of mankind would experience a net gain.

No, the solution is not to wall off Africa. Or Brazil. It’s to move in and educate these “traditional beliefs” into extinction.

The last part of this quote is the only one that I found you expressing disgust for, and frankly, I don’t see what’s wrong with it. These ARE fucked-up activities, and claiming cultural relativism is really no more than giving a pass to the monsters who victimize children and women in these examples. Dealing with such problems through education is surely the least intrusive way to deal with them; what alternatives would you suggest? Or is cultural integrity (a myth in itself) so sacrosanct that we ought to be willing to sacrifice a few innocent people every now and then on its altar?

Daniel

[culture]

@GaWd

Daniel,

I’ve already quote several passages that I found to be truly nauseating in thtis thread. And yes, it is mainly the paternalistic tone of certain posters which I object to.

That is all I will say.

Sam

Gawd,

You are correct. I should address the issues and drop the hyperbole, off-topic stuff and sarcasm. Sorry.