Let me be real clear: this message board does NOT need conservatives

You know why you need conservatives? To fight ignorance caused by being in a bubble.

For example, we were telling you the Hunter Biden Laptop story was a big deal, while Twitter and Facebook were censoring it. And it was real, and it’s still a big deal.

Without us, you might not know that the ‘Trump server connected to s Russian bank’ story was utter bullshit.

Without us you might not have heard that a lawyer representing Hillary Clinton has been indicted for lying to the FBI about it, and that he was part of a conspiracy that included a tech executive, two internet companies, a major law firm, a huge oppo-research firm and the Clinton campaign.

Just fighting ignorance here. It’s taking longer than I thought.

Fvck off

Nah. You guys need us.

No, we don’t. You are a dissembling scumbag, maliciously clinging to an ideology knowing that your arguments are absent of fact and fallacious.

And I stand by my accusation: You are Taliban Sam. You gleefully cheered as the Taliban attacked American, Canadian, NATO troops, and Afghans, because you thought it added credence to your perverse worldview.

I like your Lizard picture. It’s cute.

.

You can’t fight any ignorance by spreading lies. Or by credulously regurgitating a mix of facts and falsehoods and exaggerations so tangled up that it’s impossible to determine how much is which.

Moreover, the “bubble” nature of news and facts on the left is nowhere near as pervasive and distorting as it is on the right. In fact, all the stuff that rightwing media likes to trumpet as its own “exposes” of non-rightwing figures is generally much more fully and factually explained in non-rightwing media (which is usually where the rightwing media found out about it in the first place).

Sam, are you really under the impression that those of us in the reality-based community don’t hear about anything unless it’s on Twitter and Facebook? As this Washington Post article notes, there was plenty of coverage of this story at the time in the non-rightwing mainstream media, and there continues to be.

Yeah, 'cause nobody in non-rightwing media ever suggested any such thing. Oh wait, they did.

Because only conservatives have access to the Justice Department website where they announce what the Lawfare blog describes as “the special counsel’s weird prosecution of Michael Sussman”?

How mysterious that no non-rightwing media thought to cover this interesting story!

Oh.
Wait.
They.
Did.

Honestly, Sam, you’re just being pathetic here. Believe it or not, liberals (unlike many conservatives) do not need to go far afield beyond their “bubble” into strange new worlds of journalism in order to access news and opinion reporting critical of people who align with their own political ideology.

I have revised my opinion. I used to think Sam_Stone brought value to the board; he has worked hard to convince me otherwise.

Yeah, yeah, fuck you and Hurricane_D’Anconia. You’re not debating in good faith and you know it.

We do need honest conservatives willing to make evidence-based arguments from a different political viewpoint. And we have had a number of them over the years. Sam has never been one of them.

You’ve presented no reason or evidence that the Hunter Biden laptop story is “a big deal”. You’re just falling for conservative clickbait, yet again. A laptop with emails on it is about as mundane a story as can be. Nothing in the emails has been shown to be remotely newsworthy.

No, that can’t be right.

~Max

The honest conservatives no longer call themselves conservatives.

I used to I hold some conservative viewpoints, and might once have identified as a “centrist” (as conservatives will often do). But birtherism (specifically, seeing birtherism become mainstream among conservative and so-called “centrists,” even if only in a “Just Asking Questions” sort of way) was the push I needed to begin actually evaluating the truth claims of conservatism. I mean, I never was on board with birtherism, and the schism it created led me to reevaluate my footing on a range of issues I had previously taken for granted (eg: abortion, health care, the death penalty, the prevalence and enduring legacy of systemic racism, etc, etc).

I like to think I am as honest conservative now as I ever can be. Which is… not one.

But there is no such thing as an honest conservative viewpoint anymore.

I get it, there are plenty of conservatives that have repudiated Donald Trump and want to go back to the days when conservativism meant low taxes, small government and big military. You find those conservatives in newspaper columns. You find them on cable news and social media. They’re everywhere. Everywhere except a couple of places, and that’s holding elected office and running the Republican Party machinery. You know, the places that matter.

The Republican Party no longer has an official platform other than “We are enthusiastically supporting Donald Trump’s America First agenda. Democrats suck!” They can’t, because it’s a prime edict of Trumpism to never put anything in writing. There is no good faith Republican policy anymore, everything is transactional.

Remember how, for years, Republicans wanted to guarantee corporations the same right of free speech as individuals, up to deciding that corporations were allowed to throw money at them as long as they yelled “free speech” while they were doing so?

Well, just yesterday they introduced a bill to make it illegal for corporations to “advance left wing social policy”.

Debating policy is only useful if both sides genuinely believe in the policies they advocate for. Otherwise, it’s as stupid and futile as an honest debate between Warren Buffet and Bernie Madoff on investment strategies. It can actually be harmful if it legitimizes a falsehood or criminal scheme.

Do you think anyone should be listening to “honest debates” over who won the 2020 election?

If you want to pretend it’s 2011 and start robust debates on tax policy or health care, go for it, I guess. But there’s no one in any position of power honestly advocating for those positions anymore, except maybe for fleeting moments when it serves their own agenda, so I really don’t see the point.

Well, it turns out that conservatism was never really in favor of those things. They only advocated them to the extent that it served the only real conservative value—maintenance of the status quo hierarchy.

And liberalism was never really against those things. Liberalism values policy that works, not any arbitrary adherence to abstract values regarding policy tools.

Yep companies can be communists and left wing now. As long as they were only advocating for lower taxes and lesser regulations Republicans, for lack of a better term, were fine with “free speech” for companies. The moment they started saying “people are people and they are all welcome to spend their money with us, oh and BTW insurrections are bad for business,” all of a sudden its a problem.

It’s been argued elsewhere that liberalism has now also triumphed in the marketplace. Big Business is recognizing that diversity within is as valuable as marketing products. Rubio’s bill is a tacit admission that conservatism has indeed lost another one of the Seven Pillars.

It’s willfully ignorant to believe that parties including liberal parties promote policy for any reason other than to achieve power.

Here in the US, sure, there is a cost benefit from appeasing the progressive mob. Where the stuff is made corporations are helping to empower the most murderous state in history.

Are you drunk?

Serious question. Those are not the statements of a stable mind.