[QUOTE=DoctorJ
But, if you want to buy it, how do we know she wasn’t trying to say “AHHHHHHH WAAAAAAAAnt you assholes to honor my wishes and butt the fuck out so I might be able to die with whatever specks of dignity you’ve left me with!”[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
regards,
widdley
Guinastasia, back in the late 1980s, Operation Rescue may have been the most visible and, in my opinion, most obnoxious anti-abortion group in the U.S. Randall Terry was the head of the group. He’s not only against all abortions; he’s against all birth control as well. In an interview with Newsweek, he said he believed the devil was out to corrupt and, I think, steal America’s children. I remember reading the interview because I wanted to understand the sheer vitriol the man seemed to feel towards women in general, figure out how his mind worked, and see if I could find anything redeeming in him. The article didn’t help. Basically, Randall Terry is to the pro-choice movement what Fred Phelps is to homosexuals, only worse. Here’s a link to more information.
CJ
And from what I gathered during the portion I saw of CNN’s report on him, he’s no great fan of homosexuals either. Great guy. On the “you know, this keeps happening” side, CNN also noted the following - though here I’m quoting from Wikipedia:
“His adopted son came out as a homosexual and wrote an article for Out Magazine; Terry claimed the article contained significant inaccuracies. Both of Terry’s adopted daughters became pregnant outside of marriage, which effectively ended their relationship with their father; one later became a Muslim.”
I still think its “AHHHHHHH WAAAAAAAAnt Rocky Road Ice Cream.” After all fifteen years without a chocolate fix.
I’ve been all over the map on which side to take on this issue. I don’t give a damn about the political issues, just the moral issues, particularly with respect to the right to life or death for Terri , secondarily the rights of the spouse and finally the rights of the parents and siblings.
What just occurs to me now, if we accept the position of the husband’s and court’s doctors that Terri is non cognizant , isn’t she essentially dead already. She isn’t suffering. Her body is now a mass of living tissue without a will. Or a soul if you will.
Why can’t the husband allow the family to take the body to their home, and nourish it like a loving house plant. If my brainless body would be so cherished by my wife or children as by Terri’s family, it would be my wish to have my body remain alive. What is the downside to allow the family to keep her body alive?
The reaction of our society in general is very interesting. We accept pro choice in the interest of the quality of life of a cognizant mother and sacrifice the life of a non cognizant fetus in her favour, yet the polls seem to indicate that we prefer to have Terri’s non cognizant body expire so we can dispose of her body with dignity (assuming that would be her wish) rather than provide for the mental health of her cognizant mother. Go figure.
This has been asked and answered. It doesn’t matter that the husband COULD leave Terri’s body in the care of her control-freak parents, and it doesn’t matter if you see the harm in that decision. This is the husband’s decision. Not the Schindlers’. Not yours. Not Jeb Bush’s. Not the Supreme Court’s. Not the SDMB’s. Where the real difference in opinion lies is that one side feels they oughta help Michael decide, influence his decision, second-guess his decision, speculate about his motives, and throw emotional hissy about his decision. The other side feels that it is, indeed, his decision and that the personal dignity and civil rights of all people are at risk when the media, religious groups, politicians, judges, and other strangers meddle in our personal decisions. What the polls really indicate is that most of us, thankfully, do support private decisions about intimate matters rather than having a bunch of self-appointed moral guardians step in and bully us.
I doubt that her mother is cognizant, if she truly believes her daughter’s body is somehow going to regenerate a cerebral cortex and recover to any extent.
Actually, it’s not Michael’s decision. It’s Terri’s. That’s one of the things that upsets me the most. Michael asked the court to determine what Terri’s wishes would be, and the court, over and over and over, stated that she would want to have the feeding tube removed. This isn’t delusional parents v. husband, it’s delusional parents v. their daughter’s wishes (as found by the court).
The thing that Michael is continuing doing by not just turning over the lump of flesh that was Ms. Schiavo, is standing up for the only person who really matters…Terri.
Yes, I understand that. I was merely saying that Michael is her legal guardian and has the legal authority to do what he thinks is best.
Slight hijack: If parents are sending their children in to break a law (or any adult for that matter), is that not against the law. COntributing to the delinquency of a minor or something. Should not child services be called in to take these children away from their parents.
I can’t believe anyone would find this surprising. Culture of Life, anyone? :dubious:
The harm, grienspace is that neither Terri’s parents or her husband will ever truly be able to move on as long as her body is still alive. Michael will have to spend the rest of his life knowing that his wife is being kept alive despite what he (and the courts) believe to be her clear wishes to the contrary. Not to mention that the media has decided to splash pictures and video of her all over the place, broadcasting her helpless condition for the world to see. Everywhere he goes, he’ll be reminded of her.
Meanwhile, the Schindlers will continue to be targets for every quack and charlatan looking to sell something or to get a little more notoriety. Namenda, oxygen, acupuncture… They’ll try everything. And sooner or later, Terri will get an infection or pneumonia or her body will simply start to fail, and she’ll leave them. What do they do then? How do they rebuild their lives after spending the past fifteen, twenty, thirty years living for Terri and Terri alone? And where will their friends be then? Where will Randall Terry and John Edwards and the esteemed journalists of Fox News be when Terri is dead and the Schindlers have nothing? Do you think they’ll care when the cameras are gone? I don’t.
Think about it, grienspace. Is that really what you’d want for your family? To spend the rest of their lives lavishing money and attention on an inert shell, to be the target for every con man and snake oil salesmen peddling some “miracle cure” that will at best do nothing to bring you back, to live for false hope while the rest of their lives passes them by. I would much rather let my body die and let my family bury me, let them mourn, and let them heal than watch them suffer, over and over again, waiting for a miracle that will never come. I ache for the Schindlers, and I wish them nothing but peace, but I don’t think their peace will ever come until they let go of Terri and learn to live again. They’ve been hurt enough in the past fifteen years. It’s time for their suffering to stop.
Well, because it’s insane, that’s why. What is the difference between that and Norman Bates, other than Ms. Schiavo isn’t technically dead?
Every few months there are stories about people who are found with deceased relatives either quietly stashed somewhere, left on back porches or in one case apparently sitting in the living room. Mostly these people are there because the people who should have taken care of them couldn’t deal with it. Or they wanted to keep collecting the pension checks. But usually, these just seem like very sad pathetic, sometimes delusional people who don’t know how to cope. Frankly that’s how I view the Schindlers.
If you let the Schindler’s keep their daughter as a “house plant”, you might as well brick them up in their house with Terri and start slipping food through the mail slot.
Not that I feel that this any of my business.
I’ve been all over the map on this as well, grien, and you’ve expressed my thoughts on the issue exactly. This is complicated on so many levels. I do support what the courts have done so far, I support Terri’s wish to not live like this, and I find what Jeb and congress have done distasteful. I won’t even go into Randall Terry.
However, I also feel the husband is being a dick. I grant that Terri expressed her wish to multiple people that she would not like to linger and suffer, but there is no Terri left to suffer. Whilst the parents are delusional, letting her die will cause them to suffer. As noble as I believe the husband is in respecting his wife’s wishes, I can’t help but think that if I was able to talk to Terri right now (I’m no John Edward), I’d think she’d say “Let my parents live out their remaining years waving balloons in my face, if it makes them happy”. That’s what I would say.
I’m still torn about all of this, and apologize for offering up an uninformed and random opinion on an issue concerns just a few people who loved this woman.
Well, her parents can go to hell. This is about honoring Terri’s wishes, not catering to the delusions of two ADULTS who should have the maturity to get on with their lives. I’m sorry they lost their daughter, but enough already.
Oh, for God’s sake-this is right back to the idea that “What Terri don’t know won’t hurt her.” Who cares what Terri wanted, so long as her parents can put off their (inevitable) suffering? If she didn’t want them making decisions about her care, she shouldn’t have chosen them as her parents! :rolleyes:
I think it’s a more than a bit harsh to brand the husband a “dick” because he’s insisting on what Terri actually said, rather than what you think you’d say if you were her. Like it or not, she did say that she wouldn’t want to be kept alive with no chance of recovery. Far worse, surely, for Michael Schiavo to ignore the wishes of his own wife, simply because she’s in a PVS and doesn’t matter any more.
Breaking news on CNN - judge ruled ‘no’ on the reinsertion of the feeding tube.
I hope this means Terri can die in peace.
E.
Well, it depends on if her parents will give up now.
They need to stop running around to the different courts and go to the hospice and sit with Terri, just like Michael is doing, and say good-bye.
I thought they’d said that they were going to stop appeals completely, but mr. e said they’re stopping appeals at the federal level and still appealing at the state level.
Just saw Bob Schindler on CNN - the man is seriously delusional. I’ve lost all sympathy for the parents that I had even two days ago.
E.