Let's add some estrogen to THE LORD OF THE RINGS movies

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

The Rhymers did a LOTR movie marathon* yesterday, inspired by the fact that Memphis went into an tizzy over two inches of snow, the cable was out but the power was on, and on Sundays I hate everyone but my wife & stepdaughter.** Midway through the first movie, Kim and Cinderella started a strange drinking game:*** every time Frodo & Sam exchanged soulful glances or loving remarks, one would yell “Just kiss him already, damn it!” and whichever one of them was slower on the uptake had to take a drink. It was a very silly afternoon.

Observing the Frodo & Sam interaction, and the girls’ reaction to it, reminded me of a thread from a few months back in which several posters opined that LOTR would have benefited from more female characters, or greater emphasis on what few there were. While I can’t agree in terms of the book, I’m tempted to agree in terms of the movies, as there are so many egregrious differences between the book & the movies that I frankly consider the latter a completely different story.**** Book-Frodo is so different from movie-Frodo that they might as well have gone ahead and given the role to Alexis Bledel. Or maybe Amy Acker. Or possibly Natalie Portman.

The above insane ramblings are my usual roundabout way of getting to the thread question, or, in this case, challenge. Thinking specifically of the LOTR movies, pick a maximum of 3 characters to flip gender on. Any change you make will apply to the series from that point forward, but you may change no more than one character per movie. In other words, you can make either Frodo or Sam a girl, but not both, as they are introduced in the same movie. But since Grima, Theoden, and Eomer all appear for the first time in the second movie, you can make any of them female; Denethor, likewise, may exchange his testicles for ovaries, as he appears only in the third movie. Anyway–tell us whom you would pick to change, and why.

*Yeah, even me. I like the first two movies and told them to summon me to the TV when it was time for the four non-awful scenes in the third.

**Okay, I don’t hate my nieces on Sunday either. Or my little sisters. But I’m not going any further than that.

**At least, it started as a drinking game. I confiscated the whiskey midway through TTT and they started blowing bubbles instead. Women are strange.

****Yeah, I realize I’m contradicting myself. I am a hypocrite.

[Lumpy]

We could go through all three movies and then have a throwaway line near the end of the third that Gimli is female

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Lumpy

We could go through all three movies and then have a throwaway line near the end of the third that Gimli is female

I’ve already made that claim. Unfortunately, his exchange with Eowyn during the right from Edoras to Helm’s Deep makes it clear that he is definitely male.

(Not that Legolas cared. I mean, even FEMALE dwarves are manlier than male elves, so the son of Thrandul was probably just happy for some variety.)

[MrDibble]

I’d go with Saruman, Grima and Gothmog
Saruman - well, something about the subversion of the generative role of females in the breeding of the Orcs. I’d make him a seductive sorceress - we need an evil woman to serve as a contrast to Galadriel.
Grima for that classic pulp figure, the Evil Lesbian. Adds a delightful *frisson * to the Eowyn-stalking, and makes for a nice pairing with she-Saruman.
Gothmog - I can only think of a couple real characters from the 3rd movie, and something about Denethor’s son-obsession is stereotypically male. Again, I’d make Gothmog a hottie. Yes, an Orc hottie.

[mbh]

FOTR: Legolas. Would not affect the plot in the least.
TTT: Grima. Add some lesbian sexual harassment to the story.
ROTK: The lead orc in Minas Morgul. He was kind of bitchy anyway.

[Tracy_Lord]

I don’t know, I can definitely see Denethor as a sort of Volumnia figure.

I’d love a lady Elrond. There aren’t really any mother-daughter relationships in the books, and it would take away the slightly creepy patriarchal aspect of Arwen’s “choose which man you love most!” conflict.

For Two Towers…hmm, an earth-mothery Treebeard.

[Yumblie]

Merry --> Mary. Pairing her up with Pippin creates a cliche relationship straight out of every sitcom, with Pippin as the bumbler and Mary as the straight(wo)man. It could strengthen the bond with Eowyn and have Mary look up to her (and not just literally).

Faramir --> Faramira. This would make the character even more pathetic, where she not only has to compete with badass Boromir, but she has to do it as a woman.

Witch King --> Witch Queen. There aren’t a lot of new characters introduced in part 3, so there isn’t a lot to work with. The character is pretty much genderless anyway, and whoever heard of a male witch?

[42fish]

@Yumblie

Witch King → Witch Queen. There aren’t a lot of new characters introduced in part 3, so there isn’t a lot to work with. The character is pretty much genderless anyway, and whoever heard of a male witch?

Witch Queen: No man can kill me.

Eowyn (doffing helmet): I am no man!

Witch Queen: So is the irony of my ignoring the possibility of being killed by a woman heightend by my gender? D’oh!

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@MrDibble

I’d go with Saruman, Grima and Gothmog
Saruman - well, something about the subversion of the generative role of females in the breeding of the Orcs. I’d make him a seductive sorceress - we need an evil woman to serve as a contrast to Galadriel.
Grima for that classic pulp figure, the Evil Lesbian. Adds a delightful *frisson * to the Eowyn-stalking, and makes for a nice pairing with she-Saruman.
Gothmog - I can only think of a couple real characters from the 3rd movie, and something about Denethor’s son-obsession is stereotypically male. Again, I’d make Gothmog a hottie. Yes, an Orc hottie.

I’d not be comfortable with making the only lesbian in the movie a villain.

[TWDuke]

Sauron could easily be made female. Just add some eyelashes.

It would help explain the jewelry obsession.

[DrDeth]

@Tracy_Lord

I
I’d love a lady Elrond. There aren’t really any mother-daughter relationships in the books, and it would take away the slightly creepy patriarchal aspect of Arwen’s “choose which man you love most!” conflict.

.

Yes, and we could call “him/her”= “Galadrial”.:rolleyes:

[Lightray]

@Yumblie

Faramir → Faramira. This would make the character even more pathetic, where she not only has to compete with badass Boromir, but she has to do it as a woman.

And that hairstyle would look much better on a woman. 'Cause it was doing him no good as a guy.

@TWDuke

Sauron could easily be made female. Just add some eyelashes.

It would help explain the jewelry obsession.

Sauron spent most of the movies as a giant, flaming vagina on top of a big ol’ phallic tower. Estrogen aplenty, already.

Me, I’d go with making Gollum female. Makes his fondness for Frodo really creepy, and adds even more hilarity over his and Sam’s cattyness toward each other over Frodo, too.

[Tom_Tildrum]

Gollum could be made female, although then the alternating between fawning over Frodo and abusing him would play like Miss Piggy and Kermit the Frog.

[Mrs.Cake]

FOTR - Lets go for Gandalf’s sex reassignment and cast Dame Judi. She’s pretty badass when she wants to be and I can see her smoking a pipe and laying about her with a sword as needed

TTT - Gotta be Faramir, only, see, Denethor doesn’t know Faramir is a girl. He really only wanted sons so it’s sort of been hidden from him. She only wants to be loved by her father for who she really is. Cast Kate Winslet, just to show how little Denethor really looks at Faramir.

ROTK - As said before, not too many new characters introduced, so I’ll go with the entire Corsair crew - tattooed, unwashed Amazons, the lot of them. In keeping with the original casting, the crew includes Ngila Dickson, Chris Henna, and Tanya Rodgers.

[MrDibble]

@Skald_the_Rhymer

I’d not be comfortable with making the only lesbian in the movie a villain.

Why not?

[Tracy_Lord]

I love Mary and Pippin, the slapstick couple! And Dame Judi as Gandalf would be amazing.

If Faramir is a girl, does that mean that he and Eowyn still hook up? I could get way behind the gender-confused young women with daddy issues finding their self-confidence with each other. And making out a lot.

@DrDeth

Yes, and we could call “him/her”= “Galadrial”.:rolleyes:

What? Galadriel doesn’t have anything near a maternal relationship with Arwen. Do they even meet?

[well_he_s_back]

Well, Galadriel was Arwen’s grandmother, but that’s never mentioned in the movies.

Oh, Skald - just when I think all the interesting LOTR questions have been asked and answered here, you come up with another winner. Love ya.

[Der_Trihs]

Give the Balrog breasts.

[Lightray]

Well, at least we’d have years of entertainment arguing if the balrog’s shadow reached out like two vast breasts means that the balrog can actually breastfeed, or if it just alludes to the fact that the balrog just looks like it might be able to breastfeed but in fact just needs a sports bra.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@well_he_s_back

Well, Galadriel was Arwen’s grandmother, but that’s never mentioned in the movies.

Oh, Skald - just when I think all the interesting LOTR questions have been asked and answered here, you come up with another winner. Love ya.

That’s the only reason they don’t ban me, dude.