Let's Complain About the All-Star Game Selections

It’s that time of year.

First and foremost, I believe the current system is a bunch of crap. Letting the fans pick the players lends itself to ballot-stuffing: witness the 5 million + votes basically the entire starting lineup of the Seattle Mariners by Japanese fans. Major League Baseball should emulate the NFL system, where fans’ votes only count for a third of the vote; the players and the coaches also get equal say.

Now, on to the players:

Cal Ripken is not having an All-Star year. He has, however, had an All-Star career, and so he probably deserves to be there on the strength of his career.

Ichiro is a great player and he’s brought some zip to the game. I’m glad he’s there.

Barry Bonds is a dour and angry man. But you don’t get selected to the All-Star game based on your personality.

Sammy Sosa is the only Cub starter, and deservedly so.

One glaring omission is Albert Pujols. This kid is hitting something like .369 with 20-odd homers, and he’s basically got NL Rookie of the Year sewn up. Yet he’s not on the All-Star team. :mad:

What do the rest of you think?

If Bobby Valentine leaves Cliff Floyd off of the NL Team (for calling him “stupid”) I’ll have something to contribute to this thread…

:: puts on flame-retardant undies ::

I’m tired of seeing people who can’t hit above .250 in the all-star game. I’ve been tired of seeing Cal there when he didn’t have the numbers, and I was tired of The Streak when he stopped producing and started being an offensive detriment to the team.

Mercifully, I don’t pay enough attention to the All-Star game to know who’s in it until I see the line-up announced (which takes more time than all the commercials put together). So long as the people I wanted to see there are in it (well, most of them . . . can’t very well expect to see Jason Marquis or Mark DeRosa there), I’m happy.

Let’ see, the All-Star break is where we play a game that only has meaning in the record books and is meant to allow the fans a once-a-year shot at being involved. So what is the problem when the most popular player goes.

The next point is that from what I hear, Japan has been watching the Seattle games and I wouldn’t be surprised if they get to watch the All-Star game. Why not let them vote. We have the audacity to call it the “World Series” and then object when the world gets involved. Seattle is doing very well and drawing a very large crowd they deserve the spots they received.

The call to allow Ripkin to play no matter how the voting goes in Torre’s call. That is the way the reserve players are selected. Every year there is always someone who is deserving, but is left at home. Note: I am NOT a Ripkin fan and think he should have retired years ago but changing the rules for one player makes for a bad precedence that will, IMO, come back to burn the fans in future games. The rule I am talking about is the suggestion some commentators have suggested of increasing the allowed number of players to allow Ripkin to play.

The gripe I have is when there is only one player at the game from a certain team and that player does not see playing time. It is like a slap in the face to the fans of that team and the manager that year should be taken out back and horse whipped.

I hate the Rockies, but he deserves to start. On the other hand, who do you leave out? I gotta say Sosa, though he’s having a fine year, too. Walker is a more complete player and puts up numbers away from Coors Little League Field, too.

Ripkin doesn’t deserve it for this year, but he earned it through his carreer. Give him his farewell. The team he should really have been left off of was last year.

Rarely has the All-Star game been about who’s having a a good half-season. It has always been about fan favorites. It’s an exhibition game that gives fans the opportunity to select the players they want to see play.

So, Cal’s not having a strong year. So. I still want to see him play in one last All-Star Game.

So, the Japanese fans went heavy for Ichiro (duh!) and the rest of the Mariners. So. There’s a reason they’ve got 60 wins at the break without the assistance of R.J., Griffey and A-Rod. They’re a goddamn good TEAM.

The ballot is open to all. If your guy doesn’t get in, whether he’s having a great year or not, then you weren’t doing enough to stuff the ballot boxes.

And the managers can still make up for the most obvious oversights by naming reserves.

What’s there to complain about?

Enjoy the game. And familiarize yourself with Safeco Field. You’re going to be seeing a lot of it on TV in the post season.

JonScribe, unabashed Mariner fan.

I’m tired of the bellyachin’ on this issue.(it’s been drove into the ground on the baseball boards)

The players that deserve to be there, the only players who deserve to be there…are the ones the fans vote for!!! This is not about how great a year a player is having, or had last year. Maybe it should be, but that’s another matter. This, my dear friends, is a showcase games for the fans. A chance for them to see their favorite players in a meaningless game. Not the best players, because such a distinction leaves itself open for endless debate. Popularity, on the other hand, can be readily determined by a simple vote(not a good vote, but a simple one). Which leaves us where we are.

Is Troy Glauss a better 3rd baseman than Cal Ripken? Of course he is. A better hitter right now? You betcha! Has he won the hearts of the majority like Cal, as measured by fan ballots? Not yet.

Remember, it’s a popularity contest, not a merit award.

So, under this logic, Jethro Tull’s victory over Metallica in the heavy metal Grammy category a few years back was correct? That, even though it makes no freaking sense in the universe, Tull’s victory was correct simply because a system was in place – good or bad – and a vote was conducted? I’m not sure that I would argue that the All-Star voting system is so unimpeachable that I’m supposed to swallow outcomes that fly in the face of common sense.

I’m with Iampunha! Bob Gibson sucked in 1968… only a .184 average. What a worthless player! I mean, good pitching or good fielding are nice, but who really cares about that? We want beefed up thugs who can smack da ball reel hard! Feh… guess this is why I quit watching the game when I started seeing high scoring games in the NL on a regular basis.

Who, babe. Apples here, oranges there. I really don’t care about Mettalica or Jathro Tull, but that grammy was for the ‘Best’ in that category, was it not? The ‘Best’ is debateable.

The common sense is that All-Stars are selected by fan votes and it is votes that determine their worthiness as starters, not stats. It’s a popularity contest, that’s all I’m saying. If we want it to be a game with the best of that year, we will have to design another selection system(one which does not include fans). Mark my words, though. There will still be controversy over who is more deserving.

Well, Pujols was not on the ballot, so he would have to get enough write-in votes to get the starting nod. Not bloody likely. The candidates are one player per team per position, I think from the line-up on starting day. Anyway, what position would you vote him for?

Also, this was only the starting team. He will probably be picked as a reserve.

Obviously, you spell better than most.

“Apples and oranges.” Hah. You know, sometimes people say that in debates without actually stopping to think whether or not it makes sense. In this case, it doesn’t. I’ve got apples and apples. Let me try to walk you through it.

**

Just because the possibility exists that it could turn into a popularity contest doesn’t mean that we should assume that a popularity contest is what it OUGHT to be. It ought to see the best players – which is certainly debatable, but there are players who would clearly be wrong to select – voted in.

If it’s such a popularity contest, I fail to see how Barry Bonds does so well. He presents a very sullen demeanor. Now, I might think that he got in for his STATS, but that would be crazy – you said so!

In 1957, the fans had the vote. But when Cincinnati voters voted Reds players into seven of the top eight positions, ignoring Willie Mays and Hank Aaron, the commissioner of baseball stepped in and REPLACED two fan selections. So the commissioner of baseball agreed with my position that the voting is not a pure popularity contest as you argued.

The cite is here, in case you’re curious.

Point of reference - I’m an Ohioan transplanted to Phoenix. My teams are the Indians and the Diamondbacks - each with one starter this year. But I’m actually fairly pleased with the starters - from both leagues. I was concerned two weeks ago when David Bell was leading AL 3rd basemen with his .250 batting average, but ballot box stuffing in Seattle didn’t result in starting any players who don’t deserve to start. All of the Seattle starters who are on the team deserve to be there. (The ones who DON’T deserve to be there are from other teams, as it happens.) I like the NL starters, too, for the most part.

That said, the All-Star game should be about stats. It shouldn’t be a popularity contest, until you get down to choosing between players whose stats are very similar. When it becomes a popularity contest only, players like George Brett and Kirby Puckett would be sitting at home on All-Star day because of their small-market affiliations, and Yankees players would overload the rosters.

Players should be picked based on their abilities to help their teams win the game. Pure and simple. Hitting, slugging, fielding, base-running. If Ripken, batting .210, has some unseen value that will help the AL to win, then, sure, put him in there. He shouldn’t be playing otherwise. Sure - send him to Seattle. Give him a nice tribute. Then sit him down to watch the game.

Once upon a time - and it wasn’t so long ago - the fans had no say in who got to go to the MLB All-Star game. This came as a direct result of the incident cited by Snooooopy. Ford Frick said “Oh, no, you don’t, either” and arranged things so that fans could no longer load the ballot box. It’s only been recently that the privilege of All-Star voting was given back to the fans. There’s nothing in the rules that says Selig can’t take it back.

As far as Alberto Pujols (spelling) is concerned. He would have to beat out Todd Helton for a starting position. There ain’t no way in hell that would ever happen. Todd is having a career season and is far and away the best first baseman out of either league.

I never have liked Cal Ripken Junior and he sucks ass this year and has played all of 50 games. If he wants on the all star team, let him be a fucking bat boy or something. IT’s offensive to Troy GLaus and anyone with any third base ability whatsoever. Dont’ even get me started and that would be David Bell faisco. . .

Larry Walker also got robbed. His numbers are far and away better than Sammy’s. Sammy has him in homeruns and that is it. I am not overly upset over this one because sammy is having a good season. (but Larry is simply god out there)

I realise that this is a fan’s game, but if has nothing at all to do with their ability, then why even bother mentioning it next to their name as an accomplishment. This is a baseball game, not a fucking grade school election, come on. I spent hours filling out my ballot and right now it seems like a gdamn waste. You should have to right a test to eliminate this bullshit.

More evidance that this system is seriously flawed? Griffey was rated fifth. Fuck that.

I was so excited/enraged when I saw this topic, I didn’t read all the way down. I pretty much totally agree with jadailey.

I sure hope not. At least my post made some amount of sense:)

mayberrydan, dude . . . “I spent hours filling out my ballot and right now it seems like a gdamn waste.” Res ipsa loquitur.

spooje, dear friend:

All-Star.
Popularity contest.

I feel sure you can appreciate the difference.

I’m beginning to think that I take the allstar game a touch to seriously? ahhhh welllll, I’m a perfectionist and an idealist.

Forgot to add:

There’s a reason the fans don’t get to pick the pitchers.

It is exactly the same level grade school election insofar as it’s meaning over time. It’s a meaningless game, it’s for the fans… it is a popularity contest. And the thing about popularity contests is that while some people are going to vote on ability - some are going to vote based on how friendly they think the guy is, random selection, or because their girlfriend told them to vote that way. And that’s ok.

I also cannot believe you spent hours filling out your ballot. I could have told you that was a fucking waste of time way before you started… hours??? what were you thinking? Picking out navel lint is a better use of time.

As far as ballot stuffing - yes, it is possible that Japan stuffed the ballots, and/or the Mariners are kind of the home team for a 5 state area, and don’t have to split a geographic region, and all of us stuffed the ballot (or, the fucking obvious that the M’s are 60-21 and 21 games ahead, and the players might just have something to do with that…) . But no one was stopping the rest of you from voting early and often for your favorites… quit whining already.

mayberrydan said:

Well let’s see. You’ve got Giambi and Sweeney and Klesko and Olerud and Thome and Delgado to consider. You can make a case for Helton, and I like him as a hitter myself, but this is some pretty fast company. To say he’s head and shoulders ahead of this group is a little strong. Me, I take Giambi.

As far as All Star voting goes, I favor an idea floated around seveal years ago where each franchise represents a precinct, and the precinct totals determine the starters. So if the M’s fans want to go nuts for David Bell, then they have in effect wasted their vote; the grown-ups in other precincts determine who gets to play.