Dude, we’re on your side. You don’t have to be nice to us; we already agree with you. But I think **elucidator **is right on–letting the perfect be the enemy of the good (or the barely adequate) is a mistake in politics. If Obama had made legalizing SSM a plank in his platform, you might well be seeing McCain with his hand on the Bible come January 20th. And then you would be even further from your goal of equal rights than you are now. I don’t think, in his heart, Obama objects to SSM, but he cannot defend it politically if he wants to get elected and enact other parts of his agenda (*including *the parts that deal with greater rights for LGBT persons).
I think it sucks, and I’m angry too. I’m particularly angry, frankly, at conservative elements of the African American community, too many of whom see few parallels between their own struggle and the struggle for gay rights. (Blacks were strongly in favor of Prop. 8, for example). But the thing about reality is, you have to deal with it.
I hold no opinion on the actual marriage thing regarding GLBT folks but its not going to happen politically for several more years. If Obama was supposed to be your messiah for bringing you to the promised land of legitimized same sex marriage, then you have conspired to delude your self.
At most what the man can do is create the political climate for future politicians to feel safe about bringing it up or standing up and voting for it.
You do your cause no favors by painting the man as a disgusting bigot in your own words, I doubt he cares about an individual militant attitude, its your right as it were. A lot of Americans went to a whole lot of trouble to elect this guy, those same people who would be your allies, advocates, and champions. You have not just called him a bigot , you may have just called all the folks that voted for him a bigot.
But lets read his own words
Sounds to me like he wants to engineer social change, and quite frankly your attitude , if taken as a representative of your community makes you politically expendable.
Opposition to same-sex marriage does not necessarily entail bigotry against gays. Many gays themselves are opposed to same-sex marriage. For some people, it is simply a matter of definition. You may call the definition arbitrary, and you may say that you would define it differently, but calling people like Obama bigots for defining it the way they do is utterly stupid. Granted, there are bigots who do oppose same-sex marriage simply because they are bigots, but they oppose the whole group in pretty much every aspect.
Try to bring intellectual nuance to your discussions here. I’m failry bigotted against dumbasses.
I have decided I was too harsh yestereve when I wrote that Obama’s espousal of civil unions over same-sex-marriage was indicative of some small bigotry. Though I still believe he was being unethical, I’ve decided it was more a dishonest act than a prejudiced one.
Oh sure, Jesus Harold Christ, speaking your mind is the only way to become President.
Ask “President” John McCain. When he was running for the Republican nomination in 2000, among other things he said some negative things about the confederate flag and boy didn’t that just whisk him into the oval office.
His opponent (“Dubya” Bush) did the “right” things by visiting Bob Jones University that sort of thing.
Heck, if things should be as free and open as you suggest, when do you think a gay man or woman will get elected to the Presidency of the United States?
Basically, Jesus Harold Christ, Barack Obama may appear to be bigoted but he sure as Hell is not stupid. :mad:
(unlike the current Oval Office Occupant).
The Obama quote in the previous post points out something that those calling him a “disgusting bigot” should keep in mind. Someone can believe that something is wrong without feeling obliged to dismiss the opposing opinion of others, or to take action to enforce that belief if you are in a position to do so. Which is something that, unfortunately, too many people are incapable of doing.
I don’t for a second thing Obama is a bigot and I fully support him. Having said that I think it is a fair criticism of him when he says he does not support gay marriage. I know the political realities, but I think Obama can handle a bit of criticism on this. That’s part of the game. Civil unions are not the same as marriage, and separate but equal is not an acceptable policy. The fact that he lets his faith determine this also disturbs me.
I don’t see Obama’s position as dishonest or political expediency. I think that he personally doesn’t believe in same sex marriage, and is also quite clear on the difference between his personal beliefs and the public policies which affect the country as a whole, and is unwilling to impose his beliefs on those who do not share them.
The churches can have “holy matrimony” if they want it. I have a marriage, not a “civil union”, I didn’t get it from any church, and I refuse to let any religion define it or control it.
Whenever you deny to others rights which you claim for yourself, and cannot give a good reason for this double standard, you are guilty of bigotry. I still haven’t heard good reasons for banning SSM, so I will continue to judge those who oppose it as guilty of bigotry.
It’s a shame that any presidential candidate who actually wants to get elected has to play to the bigot crowd. I take solace in knowing the bigots are on the wrong side of history, and will lose in the end.
I’m thinking JHC’s stay will probably not last very long here (just judging from this topic among many other topics he’s made).
You know how there’s a Celebrity Death Pool on here? I wish, sometimes, there was a StraightDope Banned Pool. I’d be in the lead. I told TLDR, SBSO, This guy with Jeans in his nick (can’t remember the exact name), 2.5 Inches of Fun, and another poster (whom I can’t remember the name at all right now–shows you how important they are to me) that I was guessing they wouldn’t be around much longer when they were still posting. So far I’ve seemed to be spot on.
Its the word “bigot” that throws me off, here. I was raised in Texas, back when old school bigotry was the norm, not the exception. Serious bigotry, not making a dumb joke about Brokeback Mountain or Will and Grace. To me, “bigot” is in a class of words like “pimp” or “Nazi”, it doesn’t admit modification, there is no such thing as being “kind of” a bigot, or a little bit of a bigot. If I try to see the same level of ignorant, vicious contempt that several of my uncles embodied, try to see something similar in Obama…just can’t. No fucking way.
I think Obama took a calculated poltical risk. I think he thought, as I did, that it wouldn’t pass. That risking his election was not worth it, because it wouldn’t pass anyway, and even if it did, the pace of change in California was not likely to be set back to any significant degree. And not for long.
So I guess you gotta ask yourself: if Obama came to your support, and it cost him the election, making McCain and Palin…(shudder)…would you have wanted him to anyway?
Definitely, something is called for, you are unjustly treated. But is it so urgent that you would have us put our entire nation at such a risk?
I don’t think so. Now, maybe that’s because I’m not gay, so I don’t understand. Maybe. But I still don’t think so. And that’s not bigoted, thats just one of the cold equations.