Let's open a bar!

In My Humble Opinion
1

Many of us have had the drunken discussion with friends, usually after midnight, that revolves around someone saying “Let’s open our own bar!”

So let’s discuss it realistically. What are the ins and outs, positives and pitfalls of owning a tavern. If you’ve owned/managed/worked at a bar, what advice/warnings would you give someone entering the game? If anyone has started up a similar business, what advice would you throw out.

Any advice, ideas, or suggestions are welcome (but let’s not make this a “my dream bar” thread). For the most part it would be nice to have practical advice (although that’s no fun).

FTR, I am not opening a bar, but have considered it and may give it go someday. I have no delusions as to what it entails, having worked in bars and having a few friends who own bars (and having watched several Bar Rescues :)). Until things smooth out (which can be years), it’s basically your life.

I would think the first stage would be a detailed business plan. Figuring out the demographics of the area and determining what services at what cost would be offered. Determining the size of the desired place, along with what the expected profits would/could be. Once I was satisfied with that, I would look into expected expenses and start up costs, and when the break-even point could be hit.

After that, I would work on atmosphere. This will vary by the market and location, but something with some energy with good neighborhood roots, better than a dive, but not by much. For food, I think a food truck approach would keep costs down. Very small menu, easy to make, but tasty with top notch ingredients (think gourmet tacos or something). Size wise I would target 100+. Large enough to handle the occasional event (dance/band), but not too big where it can’t be managed by one or two people most of the day.

So, any bar thoughts?

2

I’ve worked in a bar while in college. I’ve worked behind the bar serving drinks, as a bouncer and as a floor supervisor. Having to be one of the few sober adults in the room, constantly surrounded by drunk a-holes, smell of stale booze permeating everything… No thank you. I would not have any part of it ever again.

3

Generally a bad idea.

First of all, location, location, location - and a good one is usually hard to find for the right price (otherwise they wouldn’t be selling it.)

Your market - most bars do really well on the weekends when you show up - the had damned well better do good business then as then there are the long stretches where there is little or no business.

Few bars have much going during the day - especially weekdays - so there are a whole bunch of hours you are not even breaking even on paying employees, electricity, etc.

Bar crowds come and go on a whim - maybe something new and shiny opened down the street, or your bartender is an asshole to some people who count, or perhaps weather, or perhaps food - any number of things can cause the popularity of a bar to crash and burn.

There are some TV shows about a guy who goes in to try to get bars back up to speed and turning a profit - watch one of them and see what you have to think after that.

Again - if you should ever have oodles of money to blow and nothing else to do with your life - go for it - but the odd are pretty much against you hitting the big bucks unless - location, location, location - plus timing - plus lots of other factors.

4

Two from my circle

If you want to make money, you have to be there at all hours. If you’re not watching the employees they will rob you blind and you will waste all of your potential profits hiring extra employees, custodians, handymen, and cooks, when that’s your job.

If it starts making decent money, you must reinvest. You can’t start living the high life and blowing all the profits on fancy cars and trips to Vegas.

5

I don’t think you can go into it wanting to start a bar. You need a restaurant plan and supplement the income with night time alcoholic profits. I know a lot of states require that the majority of your profits has to come from non-alcoholic sources.

6

You won’t get rich but it’s pretty easy to make a living, assuming you don’t get robbed blind by your staff considering is mostly a cash business, or someone doesn’t decide to start selling drugs in your bathroom and get your license pulled, or there’s a kitchen fire because the bartender’s been feeding the short order cook vodka on the rocks for free food, or a dozen other things I can’t think of right now, oh and plan on spending so much time there it really isn’t any fun anymore.

7

Does zoid hang out at the wrong kind of bars, or the right kind? Hmm. :steeples fingers:

8

No one has mentioned the impending alcoholism and divorce.
Had a relative open a bar. Took about 3 years for everything to be gone.
Though the alcoholism remains.

9

LOL :smiley:

I suppose it depends on your perspective.

10

From watching Bar Rescue, a recurring theme is an owner using the bar as a place to party, not as a business. If you open a bar, it will be a full time job, nights and weekends. There is a lot of worry and work.

11

If you can find an honest bartender that ISN’T generous with the booze

And know the neighborhood BEFORE you decide how many seats you’ll need.

There is/was a straight-from-1890 bar on New Montgomery in SF - across from the St. Francis Hotel (legend has it, and I’ve met people who claim to have seen it) a tunnel under the street so the patrons could escape Prohibition-era raids). It has/had no stools at the bar - just a polished brass footrail, and, supposedly, did not allow women (except the ones upstairs) until 1970. Movie studios would replace the streetlight outside with a period-appropriate one for filming in and out.
I do wish I could remember the name. Anyway, it was open for a few months, then broke again, back and forth. Do hope it is still there and intact.
Point being: NOTHING is a sure bet

12

Even with location there’s no guarantees. I knew a couple that owned an established bar that was already up and running in a good location. They wanted to retire so they were selling the bar. Pretty much as good a situation to get into the bar business as you could imagine.

A friend of mine bought the bar. He lost his life savings in the business and was broke within two years. He had never guessed how high the overhead costs were in running a bar.

13

I once knew a guy who owned a bar. He was doing really bad the first few years, until he realized his employees were robbing him blind. He estimated at least 30% of the cash paid by customers never made its way to the register.

14

Dealing with regulatory agencies is a bitch (I’m referring to Pennsylvania specifically). It is easier to get a restaurant liquor license than a bar liquor license. But then PA LCB requires that you be able to serve food (listing a menu and being able to fulfill orders).

BUT some bars do not want/need to sell food. So a complicated dance takes place. A bar I go to has a menu listed. Everyone knows that the menu is just there to satisfy the law. If I overhear people planning to order food, I explain the situation and suggest they call and have a pizza delivered. Of course, when the pizza arrives I have a slice myself.

One nearby brewery/bar has a menu offering six different soups. There are cans and a microwave in the back. If you order chicken noodle, they’ll serve you; however the listed price per bowl is $22.75. The LCB hasn’t complained yet and nobody has ordered any soup.

15

Another negative in PA is encouraging consumption. It is illegal to encourage consumption. It’s really strange to have a business where you want customers to purchase your offering, yet technically you cannot do things to help achieve your goal.

Pennsylvania has recently been prosecuting bars that offer premiums. A bar I go to used to give T-Shirts to those who drank 25 different drafts. They had to stop doing that.

16

I have seen neighborhood dive bars survive and do a great business for 30 year stretches. I have seen other bars in the same neighborhood open and suck the owner dry in a couple of years. Personality of owner and bar tenders can’t be ignored.

One theory I always wanted to try out is kind of the opposite from a lot of common wisdom. Commonly around here bars do things to attract women knowing men will follow. The problem I see with that is the men that follow are not neccessarily the cream of the crop.

  My theory is to find a way to attract a good class of males and simply provide a safe envirement for females of all age groups. Males are slightly more prone to finding hangouts than women. Don't put up with drunks no matter how much they spend. The kind of customer I would want to attract would not want a rowdy drunken atmosphere. Good men will attract good women and other good men as well.
17

I understand your goal, but a roomful of good men and women sounds a bit of a bore. You need a crazy-assed drunk spouting foolishness, a woman pissed off that nobody wants to buy her another, and someone sobbing in the corner for atmosphere. And that’s bare minimum to catch and keep my trade, dammit!!:cool:

18

I often wonder if a lot of bars only survive because they’re being held afloat by illicit activities, such as money laundering and/or drug dealing.

A bar in the neighboring town recently closed when it was discovered the owner was dealing coke from the bar. I suspect his profits from drug dealing were being laundered through the bar.

19

Truth, but getting that correct balance between profitable but crazy would be tricky. Kayaker, IIRC, you know the bar and bar owners that I would try to emulate (Erin Rose). Fun place, lots of energy, good mix of weirdness, loyal employees and customers. Can’t bottle the NOLA atmosphere though. I’ve also done my fair share of drinking in PA (Mifflinburg area), know some bar owners there and the crap they’ve had to deal with.

One of the things that got me thinking about it is that I’m in an area that has pretty laid back licensing procedures. You can get a place legal for a few thousand with minimal restrictions. Beer and liquor are also separate licenses (one is local, one is state) so many places open as a beer only place, then obtain their liquor (liquor has all the seating and food restrictions).

There are a lot of good comments, and many of them I’ve considered.

Location - That’s always been the catch-22. To make money you need the location, but to get the location, you need money! The area I’m in only has one real entertainment strip (aside from campus), and most people are mobile when they’re out for a night. This allows slightly better odds with opening in an off location. I’ve seen a few places pull it off, so there’s at least hope!

Customers - One of the reason I’d like to be a bit neighborhoodish, is those places seem to draw regulars on off days. I also feel that to keep people coming, you can’t be stagnant. Always try to have an energy and vibe to the place. Some successful places around here do loss leader nights, like $.10 wings on Mondays (normally $8/dozen). The place is packed, the night a tradition, and it promotes the place like crazy. Is it worth it? Who knows, but it’s been going on for years.

Alcoholism/Divorce - Oh yeah, thought about that. I think it would take a bit of self control to remain sober while there’s a party going on around you. Some things I’ve seen responsible owners do include not drinking until the bar is closing (not every night either), and not partying while working (only do it when someone else is running the bar). If you then decide to party in your own bar, you pay for the drinks from your pocket (you’re less apt to buy rounds of shots when you have to pull $100 out of your pocket), and if you’re prone to doing stupid shit when you drink, do it at someone else’s bar and make it their problem.

Theft - I have seen so many owners get robbed by their employees, I don’t think I’d ever stop watching. It’s hard to inventory and easy to steal. Even if your employees are loyal, you still have the customers to deal with. I think if you make it a routine to measure bottles, check receipts, etc. and make it clear that there’s a good possibility to get caught, you can keep employees in check.

Like I said before, I don’t have any delusions about what it entails. Despite all the bullshit, I can still see myself owning a place one day. I have seen plenty of people crash and burn, but I’ve also seen people become profitable and enjoy their life. I have no expectations of getting rich, but it seems like it can generate a comfortable income at some point.

20

In my experience a bar can thrive from illegal activity even if it’s not directly involved. If coke-heads know they can score at zoid’s Tap they’ll make a point of hanging out there, they’ll get to know the rest of the regulars and the bartenders as well as the dealers. They stop in on a Tuesday after work with some buddies and ask if Tony Montana’s been in today, bartender says not yet, he’s usually here around 8:00 or so, so they hang around and drink. If the establishment turns a blind eye to people visiting the bathroom every 15 minutes they’ll probably stay a good few hours even after Tony shows up and do a good bit of drinking.