Let's put something in the water!

I want some opinions on the following evil conspiracy idea I had:

The Powers That Be (government, etc.) secretly put a certain chemical in the nation/world’s tap water supplies. This chemical (colourless, tasteless, etc.) would cause men who consume the tap water in question on a regular basis to become sterile (due to a reduced sperm count; they could still conceive children through a fertility clinic). I’m sure such a substance exists, or could be invented fairly easily.
Why should this be done? To contol population. If all men are effectively sterile (so that one would have to go to a fertility clinic to conceive), then there would be several benefits to society. There would be no unwanted children to speak of. When a couple has a child, it would be because the parents genuinely want a child. If developing countries were to use this population control method, then their populations would stop growing at a catastrophic rate. Child poverty would be virtually eliminated, because couples who don’t have the will or means to raise a child wouldn’t have children in the first place (having a child in a fertility clinic is not cheap). The pro-life/pro-choice debate would no longer be an issue (effectively no unplanned pregnancies). There wouldn’t be any (as Tim put it) “irresponsible welfare white trash” families. Most children would come from families that can afford to send them to university.
Why shouldn’t this be done? Well, for one thing, it’s just plain evil. Also, any existing retirement plans would have to be either scrapped or completely retooled (and not in a good way). Many people who would make great parents would not have the opportunity to have children. It discriminates toward the “elite” of society.

If you have any strong opinions on this matter please post them. Also, if you can think of any more reasons for or against this conspiracy, please post them too.

P.S.: I wasn’t sure which forum to post this in, so please forgive me if it seems a little out of place.

Aside from the obvious moral and legal isues, the “stay out of my body unless I invite you in” stuff, there’s a significant practical problem. Such a substance does not exist and various experiences with chemical birth control prove that it would be very difficult and expensive to try to develop such a substance, and the development effort would almost certainly fail. In other words, your “stuff” doesn’t and probably cannot exist.

I think it’s pretty well accepted fact that sperm count has gone down by something in the order of 30-40% over the last 50 years. This is not encouraging news.

However, it would also seem unlikely that this is part of a grand conspiracy as the world population is growing at a faster rate than at any other time in history (but not in the developed world where it has roughly stagnated)

Reasons put forward for the sperm count droop have had largely market driven / capitalistic origins. For example; use of assorted pesticides to protect crops, unknown long term effects of chlorine, possible influence of presrvatives in food stuffs, injecting cattle, etc. with hormone growth stuff…the list is long.

Current theory conclusion: Current lower sperm count is due to messing with the food chain in order to increase productivity - but it could be the aliens.

I haven’t researched this, it’s just newspaper readin’ so, if you wish, take it with a pinch of unadultereated salt.

Actually, I heard that in Australia one of the latest things they’ve been doing to try to control the rabbit population was a lot like this. They put out food where wild rabbits would find it. The food contains something that sterilizes the rabbits. Can anyone confirm this?

There was a story published (in the late '60s, maybe the '70s) very similar to the idea in the OP. Anyone remember it? It was kind of along the lines of 1984 with a Big Brother type of government ruling. The difference was that the people knew about the agent in the water, and it was reversible with an antidote.

I don’t think the scenario as set up in the OP would happen in the United States, however. Too much money to be lost by corporate America if there isn’t always another group of consumers being born to eventually buy overpriced products made in some sweat shop in Asia.

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Why men? There already exist such a product for women.

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It shouldn’t be done. What about the possible affects this wonder drug might have on women and children who also drink the water? Oh, and let’s not forget that nobody has a right to force me to take medication. ANd not everyone can afford a fertility clinic and those that do may not wish to use their services.

Marc

Playing God with everyone in the country’s lives to combat some imagined need for population control is not necessary or desirable. There are always side effects that you do not plan on. Even if the method of birth control were to somehow be the one drug that is entirely safe for everyone, the sociological implications of such an action could not possibly be predicted. And even if they could be, it still does not give you, me, or the powers that be the right to make decisions as to who should not be able to give birth.

Another reason that this would not happen in America is that it is pretty obviously unconstitutional.

It’s all been done before – not the water treatment, but the debate.

You might be interested with some of the thoughts people had several months ago.

Birth control in the water supply … tell me why not

Women can’t take the pill every single day without it interfering with their cycles. Not only would this be bad for women’s health, but it would be impossible to do covertly.

That’s why I said it would be done covertly. Also, I’m not necessesarily talking about america. China has made it clear that it wants to control its population growth (granted, it doesn’t have a public water supply to the entire country, but they could use this conspiracy in cities), and it isn’t known for being overly concerned about human rights. Stop being so ethnocentric; consider this method for other countries.

And not everyone nowadays can afford to raise a child and those that do may not wish to do so. All to often, people have their lives derailed by unplanned pregnancies. If couples have to go to great lengths to have children, then each child will be wanted and loved. Lives won’t be ruined by unwanted pregnancy (especially if you live in a part of the world where birth control and abortion are very unpopular). One can’t confidently say that every single child in the world today was wanted and is loved by his or her parent(s).

Lower sperm count probably comes from higher populations.

I think low sperm count comes from stress, which is very much linked to population. More people, more stress. Rats react in much the same way, right down to the mindless homicide.

Asmo & derleth are both correct. Mice, when given unlitied food & water, but limited room, act just like we are doing. They kill their young, turn “gay”, and have lower sperm counts. It is “natural”.

I really don’t think such a thing would be “evil”, but I would hardly support it. Instead, let us stop having bonuses for having kids. Get rid of the deductions, and immeadiatly get rid of the EIC & “kid credit”.

OK then, Plan B - I’m thinking that maybe this stuff doesn’t get quite the same publicity in the States. Anyway, this seems like a reasonably authoritive piece (to me):

http://www.copa.org/library/articles/toxcat/sperm.htm

The above could be questioned because of its campaigning stance (despite seemingly reporting only the factual results of clinical tests) so:

http://mediwaste.com/structure/ENV_HEALTH_0002.htm

is another example. There are lots more out there.

Well, in the scenario described in the OP, I would have never been born. My parents had enough money to feed and clothe me and my brother, but there was never very much extra money. If they’d had to come up with money for fertility treatments, it (therefore, we) would never have happened.

This doesn’t apply to me. I’m still virile as a bull.

No, it’s not so.

The rabbit population has recently been subject to serious slaughter, but not by water.

About 8 years ago (IIRC) there was an uncontrolled release of the rabbit calicivirus from an island supposedly quarantined from the mainland. The virus was in its final phase of testing by the CSIRO and was likely to be released in a control manner within 18 months.

Whether the virus got to the mainland by a failure of quarantine (carried by flies for example) or whether it was a deliberate act is not known, but the virus was released at a non-optimal time in Sth Australia and has proceeded to devastate the rabbit population. The result has been that various native flora and fauna not seen in 50 years has been remerging and with a bit of luck will reach critical mass to withstand the bounce in rabbit populations when it occurs.

The spread of the virus was extremely rapid and aided by impatient farmers, leading to the (fairly typical) Australian joke:
Q: how fast is the calicivirus spreading?
A: 60 km/h in built-up areas, 110 on the open road.

picmr

I’m thinking that it may be This Perfect Day by Ira Levin (same guy as Rosemary’s Baby.

I’ve heard that they put birth control in the bird seed that they sell at St. Mark’s Square in Venice to control the pigeon population. If any male is near Venice, eat some and tell me if you grow breasts…

Sperm count has gone down but I don’t believe fertility rates have.

Countries, once they have become industrialized, have typically had the population growth rate level off. In the case of the US, the only populations still growing (and that have been consistently growing since the Baby Boom) is that of new immigrants. In the case of Italy, the population is actually shrinking.

The birth rate of South Korea and Japan were phenomenal until they became industrialized. I believe this is because fewer women opt for children once they start working, as well as fewer per woman as she waits until she is older to start procreating.

So, the solution is not to put a drug for male sterility in the water. The solution is to put a drug for building factories in the water. OK maybe not.

Also, medically speaking, no known compound exists yet that is an effective male birth control. Such a chemical would have far reaching effects, from animal population control to extending sexual responsibility. The only real option nowadays is vasectomy, which is often irreversible. The problem lies in that the testes, like the brain, are surrounded by an selective membrane which excludes most chemicals (blood-testes barrier).

On this sperm count hijack: As long as no one else has any cites, I might as well throw this in. A year or two ago I recall reading a report on sperm cell counts that basically threw away the notion of sperm count lowerings because many of the current levels of sperm counts were compiled from across the U.S. and compared against traditionally higher cities such as New York. Basically, there was no drop, according to this article.

Thanks :). Do you remember if it was a full-length book or a short story? I’m thinking the latter; I read lots of sci-fi anthologies in those days, or maybe it was even in Isaac Asimov’s magazine?

It’s a full length book. I even remember the beginning of the childhood rhyme that it starts with :

Marx, Wood, Christ and Wei
Led us to this perfect day

Of Marx, Wood, Wei, and Christ
All but Wood was sacrificied