Let's talk about porn in games

[Sofis]

Sex has been around in games for some time. Now, many early efforts were more interested in sex for the sake of humour than for the sake of arousal; I doubt anyone ever got off to the infamous Custer’s Revenge. The somewhat later and far better Leather Goddesses of Phobos is a bit more likely to be viewed as erotic, but still clearly much more interested in being funny than titillating.

But at some point people came up with the idea and interest in making unambiguously pornographic games, and there have been a few since then. Many of them are pretty terrible, of course. There’s the “prod the lady with a penis/dildo/tentacle” genre of games for example, which apart from being boring and repetitive are also kind of… difficult. I guess you’re supposed to play with one hand on your mouse or keyboard and one in your crotch, but I don’t have the coordination to perform both those tasks effectively.

More successful in terms of being arousing and enjoyable are (in my opinion) the Japanese style visual novels (mainly text-based games with supporting images). Of course, these games stand and fall on their writing, and they have the same range of writing quality as games in general: some of it is absolutely terrible, much of it is bad, a fair bit of it is fine, and a small amount of it is very good. It’s all about finding the gems among the crap (as with everything). A criticism of these games is that while they may be successful at being porn, they are perhaps less successful at being games; the extreme cases have no more interactivity than your average Choose Your Own Adventure book.

But enough with the preamble. The subject for discussion is porn in games. How do you feel about that? What have you encountered that worked? What have you encountered that didn’t work? What haven’t you encountered that you think would work? Are porn and games two great tastes that taste great together? Or is it a bad idea from beginning to end?

That last question was about the combination rather than the component parts, by the way. I’d like to make it a premise for this thread that we’re all generally positively (or at least neutrally) inclined towards porn in itself. Whether porn is good or bad is as valid a debate as any other, but it’s not one I’m interested in right now, and it certainly doesn’t belong in this forum.

[willthekittensurvive]

Maybe you could try Mass Effect…

It’s called “Mass Effect” and it allows its players - universally male no doubt - to engage in the most realistic sex acts ever conceived. One can custom design the shape, form, bodies, race, hair style, breast size of the images they wish to “engage” and then watch in crystal clear, LCD, 54 inch screen, HD clarity as the video game “persons” hump in every form, format, multiple, gender-oriented possibility they can think of.

And because of the digital chip age in which we live - “Mass Effect” can be customized to sodomize whatever, whoever, however, the game player wishes.
With it’s “over the net” capabilities virtual orgasmic rape is just the push of a button away.

But back to the debate…

I’m not sure I want porn games, but then again I don’t care too much for hardcore porn , I like adult games with adult themes…and erotica can play a part in that, but game solely made help me to masturbate…I don’t think that’s my cup of tea

[WormTheRed]

That doesn’t sound like the Mass Effect game I played?

As for good “porn” games, I’d put the Lula: Sexy Empire (wiki link) games on top (hehe). It managed to amuse me for a few days a couple of years ago.

Not sure if it adds anything to other types of games. And that “interactive porn” stuff is not for me.

[Ferret_Herder]

@WormTheRed

That doesn’t sound like the Mass Effect game I played?

Yeah, those were the lies and wild misrepresentations from some people attacking the gaming industry.

[Kobal2]

Here’s my take on the subject : a good game requires one to think. Thinking gets in the way of good wanking (just as wanking gets in the way of good thinking :)). Hence, the two don’t readily mix. You’ll either end up with crappy games, crappy porn, or both.

That’s certainly been true of all “adult” games I’ve played, save for a handfull hentai games - and like you said, those are less game and more on-screen comic book with token input. Don’t get me started on the interactive 3D crap. Helloooo uncanny valley.

With that said, in my youth I did wank to Leisure Suit Larry. That’s how desperate teenagers were before the internet and all its porny goodness

[Claptree]

Fantastic review of Mass Effect! They forget to mention that it’s also possible to get alien nookie, and how! The imagination the developers show with regards to alien orifices is astounding. So many things to stick in so many places. And you get achievements for full completion! I learned incredible amounts of filthy things from that game, and, as is the nature of these things, have since been unable to stop myself from living out my fantasies at home, in the work place, on the town, wherever really. Thanks in no small part to the superb weapons training I got from the game (between hour-long sex trysts) I have also been able to negate any threat to my person posed by law enforcement agencies or other bad guys.

On a slightly more serious note, sex in games can fill a purpose - moving the story along, getting you invested in your character - but I really don’t see the point of full-on porn. It’d be pretty hard to implement well, too. Your character has defeated the evil wizard and freed the princess, and now she’s going to express her gratitude. Imagine the control settings for that, and using only one hand too.

The only porn game I played was Sex Games for the C64, or possibly the Amiga 500. I may have broken a couple of joysticks with that game badum-dish

[Anaamika]

I think that it would not be a bad thing simply to incorporate sex into games where it would naturally happen anyway. For example, RPGs, which has the most potential. I love Final Fantasy but forget sex, sometimes the characters are such dumb shits even talking to the opposite sex that I really want to reach in and strangle them.

[Projammer]

re: Mass Effect. Apparently I was playing it wrong. Guess I’ll have to boot it back up sometime.

As for the OP, I prefer my in-game sex to be humorous. Leisure Suit Larry style. Insinuation and double entendre. The occasional nude body shot.

Supposedly the Conan MMO is for mature audiences. I think I’ve heard something about Witcher as well.

[Unsquare_Dance]

I don’t know… So many people have argued with me about why I don’t want explicit sex in games. But there’s no rational explanation. I just don’t like the idea. I’m not a prude, I’m not a virgin, I’m not a closeted sex-freak persecuted by my love of Jesus. I like sex. It’s healthy and awesome. I just don’t want it in my games, is all.

I’ve heard people say, “But we have explicit sex in our movies! I suppose you want to take that away, too.” I don’t know how that even applies. Why do we treat the game industry like the kid sister of the movie biz? Why do the same rules have to apply?

The implication of sex, the inclusion of sexually attractive characters, and short sex scenes that are not for the purpose of arousal are all cool by me. They can add to a story, if done really well. But the slippery slope of including a sex scene in your game is that you make it acceptable and then someone takes your idea to a sleazy extreme.

There’s also the argument of how much violence we put in games, and if sex is so positive and healthy, why can’t we include that? It’s better than violence, right?

I don’t know… I guess so? I don’t have a lot to say about that. It’s true, in theory, but it doesn’t change the fact that violence isn’t the same as sex. Both are part of human nature, but they aren’t really the same thing. That’s like saying buttsecks is the same as vagoosecks. Yeah, they’re in the same area, but they’re not the same thing. I’d hope that we value sex a little more than violence, and that argument really sounds like the two are a stone’s throw away from one another.

I’m so apologetic for feeling the way I do about it. But I just don’t like it in my games. They’re my games as much as they’re yours, and the supporters of pornographic games are always going to hate me for wanting some gentle censorship.

Ultimately… make the sex games, and people will play them. I’m cool with that, if it doesn’t affect mainstream gaming.

[Akaadji]

I’m in the “It could work in theory” camp. I can’t rule out the idea that a deep, captivating game could have sexual content or even pornography, but at the same time can think of no game that could or has ever integrated such a thing in a way that was anything but silly or flat-out laughable.

Dating sims and visual novels, as mentioned, get a pass but the only one I’ve ever played was laughably, terribly bad. The voice work was good, but oh, the writing was horrid. Like trying to muddle through a teenager’s naive attempts at writing porn.

So, I won’t be holding my breath for a quality implementation, but I’m not ruling out the possibility entirely.

[Illuminatiprimus]

I think combining porn and computer games can only result in a product trying to do two different things badly. I’m all for sex in games as part of the story or for a bit of humour (Leisure Suit Larry being a great example of this) but games that function as pornography and are good games too? Not going to happen.

I can imagine something like virtual porn, where the porn is photorealistic animation, fine, but don’t try and tack a game onto that.

[Skywatcher]

Oppai Slider 2 is essentially an interactive porno movie. I don’t normally care for hardcore but spent some time playing this, until my XP box died. It won’t work with Vista.

[Sofis]

@Claptree

On a slightly more serious note, sex in games can fill a purpose - moving the story along, getting you invested in your character - but I really don’t see the point of full-on porn. It’d be pretty hard to implement well, too. Your character has defeated the evil wizard and freed the princess, and now she’s going to express her gratitude. Imagine the control settings for that, and using only one hand too.

I agree that interactive porn interludes probably won’t work very well, in part because I’m not a big fan of minigames that aren’t really related, gameplaywise, to the rest of the game. And, since I like a bit of character development and story with my smut, a game that’s all porn all the time is probably not going to interest me.
What do you think about games where the sexual parts are non-interactive, though? Most modern games are no strangers to cut scenes; is there any reason (apart from personal preferences, of course) they can’t be erotic in nature?
I should add, that question is open to everyone, not just Claptree.

@Anaamika

I think that it would not be a bad thing simply to incorporate sex into games where it would naturally happen anyway. For example, RPGs, which has the most potential. I love Final Fantasy but forget sex, sometimes the characters are such dumb shits even talking to the opposite sex that I really want to reach in and strangle them.

Well, you know, they can’t resolve the romantic subplot until the epilogue, and of course the only possible way of doing that is to have the characters be incompetent at forming relationships. It’s not like you could, say, have the relationship between two characters actually develop and mature throughout the game; that’s inconceivable!

I think part of the problem is some/many game designers viewing the declaration of love or formation of a relationship as necessarily being the resolution of the romantic subplot, instead of being the middle or even the beginning. So the early parts of the romance have to be stretched to last the entire game, which gives way too little material to work with, and requires the characters to be idiots.

@Unsquare_Dance

I don’t know… So many people have argued with me about why I don’t want explicit sex in games. But there’s no rational explanation. I just don’t like the idea. I’m not a prude, I’m not a virgin, I’m not a closeted sex-freak persecuted by my love of Jesus. I like sex. It’s healthy and awesome. I just don’t want it in my games, is all.

I’ve heard people say, “But we have explicit sex in our movies! I suppose you want to take that away, too.” I don’t know how that even applies. Why do we treat the game industry like the kid sister of the movie biz? Why do the same rules have to apply?

I think that, in general, games are a medium that has a very wide potential for different kinds of art and entertainment, and to any claim that “you shouldn’t do that sort of thing in this medium”, the obvious response will be “why not?”. And while porn in movies working is not a guarantee the porn works in games, it’s certainly not evidence to contrary. That pretty much all other mediums have been successfully used for erotic purposes is kind of a hint that it might work in games, too.

@Unsquare_Dance

The implication of sex, the inclusion of sexually attractive characters, and short sex scenes that are not for the purpose of arousal are all cool by me. They can add to a story, if done really well. But the slippery slope of including a sex scene in your game is that you make it acceptable and then someone takes your idea to a sleazy extreme.

…

I’m so apologetic for feeling the way I do about it. But I just don’t like it in my games. They’re my games as much as they’re yours, and the supporters of pornographic games are always going to hate me for wanting some gentle censorship.

I don’t hate you, but I don’t really understand your mindset either. I don’t see the problem with things being taken to sleazy extremes. Sure, they’re bad games, but no one has to play them, and their existence does not make good games less good.
And not all games have to appeal to everyone. I don’t think it makes sense to feel that any specific game belongs to you or me or anyone. In the end, every game has the target audience “the kind of people who like this kind of game”, and as long as that group of people is non-empty, I don’t understand why anyone would be bothered by not being included in it.

@Unsquare_Dance

Ultimately… make the sex games, and people will play them. I’m cool with that, if it doesn’t affect mainstream gaming.

I wouldn’t worry; I think the odds of porn overwhelming mainstream games are about as great as the odds of porn overwhelming mainstream movies, if you’ll excuse the movie/game comparison :).

[Claptree]

@Sofis

I agree that interactive porn interludes probably won’t work very well, in part because I’m not a big fan of minigames that aren’t really related, gameplaywise, to the rest of the game. And, since I like a bit of character development and story with my smut, a game that’s all porn all the time is probably not going to interest me.
What do you think about games where the sexual parts are non-interactive, though? Most modern games are no strangers to cut scenes; is there any reason (apart from personal preferences, of course) they can’t be erotic in nature?
I should add, that question is open to everyone, not just Claptree.

I’m going to ignore the last bit of the quoted paragraph and pretend your post was aimed exclusively at me. It feels better that way:p

My thinking is as follows: meaningful sexual interludes in games are only going to occur in RPGs and GTA-type games, because you need a certain level of emotional investment to make the interludes anything more than gratuitous filler.

Mass Effect, regardless of how the panties-in-a-bunch crowd reacted to it, actually handled the sex bit quite well. Nothing was shown you couldn’t see in a daytime soap (porn? make me laugh!), and it happened at a stage in the game where you were pretty much guaranteed to have invested emotionally in your character.

What I would like to see is a game like Fallout 3 or Oblivion, where you have an enormous amount of NPCs and hundreds of hours of playtime, where you can decide to court or marry or whatever. With proper writing, dammit.

Taking this a step further, open games like the ones mentioned, really really need about a DVD’s worth of additional writing just to allow you to take conversations and relations where you want them to. Fuck voice acting, construct a decent AI to converse with, just once!

[Sofis]

@Claptree

It feels better that way:p

Well, this thread is all about what feels better. Stroke your ego, stroke some other part of you - it doesn’t matter much :D.

@Claptree

What I would like to see is a game like Fallout 3 or Oblivion, where you have an enormous amount of NPCs and hundreds of hours of playtime, where you can decide to court or marry or whatever. With proper writing, dammit.

Taking this a step further, open games like the ones mentioned, really really need about a DVD’s worth of additional writing just to allow you to take conversations and relations where you want them to. Fuck voice acting, construct a decent AI to converse with, just once!

I agree, more or less: I’d really like to see more games where you can have deep interactions with NPCs (with or without sexual content). In practical terms, though, a reasonable conversational AI is about as far out of our reach as colonizing other solar systems, and doing the writing to enable that sort of interaction with hundreds of NPCs might literally require a DVD’s worth of text. A smaller number of high-level NPCs is the way to go, I think.

[Zebra]

A while back there was this version of tetris with naked people instead of blocks.

[The_Controvert]

Yeah, I think the naked version of Tetris was a free flash game. I love free flash games.

A lot of the games mentioned upthread are rather ancient. Custer’s Revenge is certainly laughable, but some of the latest stuff I’ve seen make Leisure Suit Larry and Leather Goddess of Phobos seem just as dated.

Sure, for a while, the genre consisted of poorly-done clones of existing popular games with some nudity substituted for sprites, or perhaps a still image displayed between levels.

But I think the genre has evolved greatly. If the point of gaming is to allow you to experience things you would not otherwise be able, then adult games can fill this role wonderfully. Instead of being a pirate or fighter pilot, I can play strip poker with assorted attractive people or try to romance Aria Giovanni.

If my whims prefer more extreme or bizarre experiences, I can slowly hypnotize a harem of love slaves; or see how a horny nurse reacts to animals or alien visitors. I can torment a schoolgirl with a hidden vibrator under my remote control. I can see how these digital temptresses react to various stimuli, with dizzying combinations of body parts, devices, or even foodstuffs. If I am into bondage or simulated rape or torture, there is a simulation available to satisfy my curiosity at any time. And simulations harm no victims and have no legal repercussions.

These are all available to me, free of charge, so long as I have a flash enabled browser and an internet connection. And on some level, these are surely just as valid a form of entertainment as other mediums.

(For those of you adventurous enough to google for NSFW links, some examples use the search terms: “Lessons of Passion” and “Robozou”)

[Kobal2]

@Sofis

I agree that interactive porn interludes probably won’t work very well, in part because I’m not a big fan of minigames that aren’t really related, gameplaywise, to the rest of the game. And, since I like a bit of character development and story with my smut, a game that’s all porn all the time is probably not going to interest me.
What do you think about games where the sexual parts are non-interactive, though? Most modern games are no strangers to cut scenes; is there any reason (apart from personal preferences, of course) they can’t be erotic in nature?
I should add, that question is open to everyone, not just Claptree.

Now that I think about it, there was an interactive sex scene in the otherwise “normal” Fahrenheit / The Indigo Prophecy. It fit well in the story too, there was nothing gratuitous about it, and the controls were the same as any other action in the game.
I found the interactivity annoying, frankly. For that matter, I don’t think an investigation into gruesome and possibly supernatural ritual killings where one has to desperately keep the characters on the good side of sanity is the best setting for porn :). But still, I’d have prefered to just watch them go at it rather than concentrate on the controls. A cutscene would have worked better for me (if you have to display the sex, of course. Hollywood-style kiss in the bed then fade to black would have worked just as well.)

[GuanoLad]

Games are for playing. TV is for watching. Porn is for wanking. I’d rather not see any crossover.

[Anaamika]

@Sofis

Well, you know, they can’t resolve the romantic subplot until the epilogue, and of course the only possible way of doing that is to have the characters be incompetent at forming relationships. It’s not like you could, say, have the relationship between two characters actually develop and mature throughout the game; that’s inconceivable!

Seriously. One of the best (in my mind) romances for a girl was Anomen in Baldur’s Gate II. He was an annoying whiny bitch in the beginning, but once you make him into a paladin and lawful good, he turns out really sweet and cool, and says the nicest things. Until you resolve his plot, that is. Then he never mentions it again.

And then there’s fucking Cloud from Final Fantasy.
Aeris: “Where are you? I want to reach out to you. I can’t find you.” (paraphrased of course)
Cloud: “But I’m right here.”
:smack:

And then there’s Planescape Torment, where I would really have liked the romance between Annah and the Nameless One to proceed, but all she does is get jealous of Fall-From-Grace and if YOU push it at all, she acts like a scared cat and backs down.

I don’t want just porn, though that I think does have its place in gaming. I’d like, when I have a romance, for it to be real. Real life is real life, and I understand romance in real life is a lot more prosaic. I think Baldur’s Gate II and Planescape Torment still did the best with NPCs, and those games were years ago. Elder Scrolls: Oblivion is awesome, but you are seriously telling me there is no way they could have incorporated a romance? Jesus, Pirates had romances, simple as they were.

This post is really rambling, but basically what it comes down to is this. I want more NPC interaction, even if it has to be limited to a half-dozen NPCs. I want more opportunities for romance. You cannot believe how robbed I felt when I discovered BG had three opportunities for male characters and only one for females. The only comfort I had was the three females were equally annoying. Still, at least they tried. And, I would like sex incorporated when it happens naturally, anyway. It doesn’t need to be a mini-game. But it shouldn’t be ignored just because it is sex.