Two opposing positions are often expressed on immigration:
Left-wingers support “Open borders”
Right-wingers support “Send them back - we’re full!”
For the purposes of this discussion, let’s assume both extremes are wrong with respect to reasonable US immigration policy. Additionally, I ask that posters accept the premise that any person currently not a US citizen (regardless of residency status) is not going to be forcibly removed from this country. They are here and will remain here as long as they wish as long as they obey all laws applicable to all US citizens and are not found to be violent criminals who pose a danger to society.
If you agree to the stipulated, please join in the discussion to explore where the real differences lie between progressives and conservatives on this issue.
What are some ideas/thoughts that you have around a ‘rational’ immigration policy?
What policies would you like to see implemented or dismantled?
We should ask new immigrants an important question, in whatever language they speak, because we’re smart like that.
“Do you want to be a part of this wonderful country?”
If the answer is yes, they are welcomed in. That’s what made this country awesome in the first place, and we should strive to make America great again.
The first policy would be that people stop expressing the left wing position as “Open Borders”. It’s grossly inaccurate and is a talking point meant to cease debate. It is like saying that the left is for confiscating guns, mandatory abortion, or teaching children to be gay in public schools. It’s not true, and does not lend itself to rational debate about immigration.
Let’s not derail the thread with personal jabs right at the beginning. I’m trying to understand the premise the OP asks us to accept. In one sentence it’s “any person currently not a US citizen (regardless of residency status) is not going to be forcibly removed from this country” and in the following sentence it’s “… as long as they obey all laws applicable to all US citizens and are not found to be violent criminals who pose a danger to society.”
Does that mean if we find out they committed violent crimes in Guatemala, but have been model would-be-citizens here in the States that we can or can’t send them back? What about someone who commits crimes here that don’t involve violence?
I think the intent of that was to say that the position that we are going to deport everyone in America that isn’t a citizen is one of the extreme positions we are ruling out for the purpose of this discussion. We are trying to find a middle ground. I’ll let the OP explain themselves, but that’s how I interpreted it.
I’m not entirely against the idea that someone who came here might have to go back to their home country. I do think that, in order to have a rational immigration policy, you can’t have a blanket “if you’re here you can stay here forever” policy.
I have a few key points in my policy:
1 - Strong controls over employment, minimize the opportunity for illegal immigrants to be employed. Dry up the market for illegal labor, replace it with a robust market for legal immigrant labor.
2 - Wider opportunity for legal migration to come here and work. Temporary (5-10 year) visas for people to come and work. Your visa is up? Reapply or go back to your home country. Generous renewal process, but not guaranteed. If you’ve spent the last 8 years not working, should I renew your work visa?
3 - Reduced chain migration. If you have a kid here you’re not guaranteed to stay here forever. Even if your kid is a US citizen, you are not.
4 - Vigorous enforcement. We are making it (relatively) easy to come here and be a productive member of our society. People who go around this easy process can’t stay.
Yep. I don’t care all that much what they did in the past in a different place, so long as they are willing and able to behave themselves while under “our roof”.
I also do not advocate sending back the “bad ones”, as that just concentrates the violence in someone else’s backyard. We have the room and the resources to keep them all locked up here, if they need to be segregated from the public for safety reasons.
It’s pretty straightforward. No deporting anyone in the country as long as they are not both found guilty of breaking the laws applicable to all US citizens *and *found to be violent criminals posing a danger to society.
No more questioning this premise until and unless the OP wishes to clarify more.
A middle ground would seem to me to be an expanded guest worker program by which employers can hire immigrant workers as needed, perhaps with some regulation as required to prevent exploitation, but no strict quotas. In exchange I would be willing to accept certain restrictions on the social services available to those enrolled in such a program.
Clarification: Do the laws they may have broken to get into the country count against them for the purposes of deportation, Or is it “In like Flynn” once they touch U.S. soil?
You know, I considered offering this in addition to the OP but it got complicated pretty quickly with respect to policy details that involve skilled and unskilled labor forces and what guidelines to use for reasonable/market pay rates. I was leaning towards rules established in NAFTA and using the GSA schedule as a guide for various labor categories.
My preferred policies that appear, by my understanding, to be well within the mainstream of public opinion:
-Legal residency for DACA/Dreamers, and a path to citizenship
-Path to citizenship for long-time undocumented residents with no criminal record (pay fine, register, etc.)
-Humane and decent treatment of migrants and those seeking refuge, including a humane court system – no more 3 year old migrants representing themselves. Everyone gets a lawyer; everyone gets their day in court; everyone gets due process.
-Enforcing immigration law is a federal responsibility; no more making cities and localities do it for them. It’s reasonable for local police to try and maintain good relations with communities of migrants, even undocumented migrants, to prevent and solve crimes.
-No wall or other symbol of hatred.