Let's talk about Southern culture

In My Humble Opinion
1

I have heard that Southern Culture centers around concept of a “genteel” way of life (Read the below definition of “Genteel” from Dictionary.com).
My question is… does this culture actually still exits today, and if it does, to what degree does it exist and where?

Genteel

Part of Speech: adjective

Definition: sophisticated

Synonyms: Victorian, affected, aristocratic, artificial, chivalrous, civil, confined, courteous, courtly, cultivated, cultured, distingue, elegant, fashionable, formal, gentlemanly, graceful, hollow, intolerant, la-di-da*, ladylike, mannerly, noble, ostentatious, polished, polite, pompous, precious, pretentious, priggish, prim, prissy, provincial, prudish, puritanical, refined, respectable, straitlaced, stuffy*, stylish, urbane, well-behaved, well-bred, well-mannered

Main Entry: civil

Part of Speech: adjective 2

Definition: kind

Synonyms: accommodating, affable, civilized, complaisant, cordial, courteous, courtly, cultivated, diplomatic, formal, genteel, gracious, mannerly, polished, polite, politic, refined, suave, urbane, well-bred, well-mannered

2

I’m not sure I see a debate, here. It seems more like a poll for views as to what and whether some special culture persists in the South, (or, perhaps, the Souths).
(It could almost be a General Question, although I suspect that there will be more opinions than facts provided.)

I’m going to nudsge it over to IMHO where you might get a better response. (At least until a couple of posters from Savannah and Brooklyn get into a brawl over who has the more refined tastes.)

[ /Moderating ]

3

“The Souths?”

Yeesh, tom.

The oxymoron that was the “genteel south” was, in my opinion, a massive geographically-specific racially-biased cultural coping mechanism that existed simultaneously alongside its other notable achievements, The Peculiar Institution, Jim Crow and The Bible Belt. To justify dehumanizing and subjugating a whole 'nother culture and peoples, they had to put on a great show of hypocrisy that managed to embrace white supremacy, forced segregation and religious intolerance, while essentially deluding themselves that they were a well-bred, God-blessed ruling class. So plucking out the more deluded synonyms, we find…

… affected… artificial… confined… hollow, intolerant… ostentatious… pretentious… provincial… puritanical…

… and I agree with all of these. The rest is mostly delusional.

4

For some basic information on the way that different migrations from the British Isles created different “folkways,” I would recommend Albion’s Seed by David Hackett Fisher. He discusses both the Cavaliers, whose traditions provided the basic roots of the “genteel” myth/mythos, and the Backcountry migration that represented the gritty reality for many Southerners.

Fisher writes in an older style of history, but he is well-respected and has received many awards for his work.

5

I could not find all of those definitions of “genteel” at dictionary.com. Can anyone provide a link?

I’m a Southerner, but gentility is not a matter of region or wealth or race. Maya Angelou is genteel. So was Shelby Foote. What do they have in common?

6

I dunno. It may make sense for you to attempt to place everyone in multiple regions from multiple cultures into one category. You’ll have to work that out for yourself.
However, the idea that the upper crust society of places such as Savannah and Charleston and the folks who lived in the hills of Appalachia or the Ozarks, and the people who worked hardscrabble farms in the clay or dust of Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi, along with the people who eked out a living in the swamps of Georgia, Florida, and Louisiana, the industrial workers of Birmingham and Athens, the people on the rivers, the folks of the piedmont, along with the folks living in the coastal regions (either Atlantic or Gulf), to say nothing of the multiple regions of the whole separate country of Texas, regardless whether they are black or white or Indian, are all members of some monolithic, uniform culture strikes me as preposterous. I have met and worked with people from many of those places and, while there are a few unifying themes among some of their behaviors or attitudes, I have generally noticed that they are not created in some cookie-cutter mold.

I was simply noting, in passing, that any attempt to straitjacket everyone below the Mason-Dixon line and Ohio River into a single culture seemed to be begging the question.

7

Ahh, don’t worry about it. If one tried to do it with whatever group Askia identified with (be it political/economic/religious/ethnic/nationality/whatever), we’d likely get a screed about how it is immoral to paint a “diverse” group of people with such a broad brush.

(Btw, the above is an example of Southern graciousness. So was the option of ignoring the idiocy, which was option #2.)

8

There are many wonderful things about being “southern.” There are some sucky things too. Like folks assuming I am a racist, homophobic, religious zealot.

The south was never industrial, agrarian lifestyles aren’t as rushed. We take the time to ask about the wife and kids, heck, maybe even your dog. You come in my house, you are family. You wave to people and smile, even folks you don’t know. Telling outrageous stories, eating tons of fried food and having a big slobbering dog. Knowing the full ramifications of the phrase “Ya’ll want grits?” It isn’t just regional, my husband is 3rd generation Tampa, he’s just southern enough to comfort me. There are good things about folks from both sides of the Mason-Dixon, but I am and will forever be, proud of my southern roots. It’s unfortunate there is no way to express it without sounding like I relish the worst things of our past.

When I was first being exposed to some of our more abrupt northern neighbors, they sounded so harsh and forceful it took me a while to realize they really weren’t as angry as they sounded. It’s just how they are. Then again, I’m probably not as dumb as they assumed I am.

Did I mention sausage gravy and biscuits? Food of the gods I say!

Cute southern boys who love bass fishing and pickup trucks. sigh

9

I like the description here.

10

Maybe I missed it, but I didn’t see a time line on that story. Judging from the wage rates I would think it was penned in the mid 70’s.

11

Link to Genteel

http://thesaurus.reference.com/search?r=2&q=genteel

12

I think the “genteel” southern culture probably was a response to slavery and later the Jim Crow south, in which black people were assigned all the nasty qualities people have: dirty, lazy, shiftless, no ambition, ignorant, completely lacking in social graces. So they assigned themselves the opposite roles, completely ignoring the social mechanisms that ENFORCED black people’s roles. (Think “separate but equal” and the true nature of that “equality.”) It then becomes possible to believe that the inequality is due to the innate nature of those on both side of the divide, rather than the product of any gross inequality in the system.

It’s a very old scam, it’s been used in China forever, it was used in medieval Europe with the rude manners of the peasants and the courtly manners of the nobility, and it was used in Victorian England with the bourgeous manners of the middle class and the appalling lack of manners of the poor.

I’m not saying that everyone who subscribes to the genteel manners of the South subscribes to racism as well, just that their origins are coincident with racism. Shelby Foote was a genteel southerner but hardly a racist, and I’ll bet you that most of the southerners who backed civil rights were genteel southerners. Eventually, some portion of those who embrace genteel manners understand that there is no reason why the good will engendered by those manners should not be extended to all strata of society, and it’s typically those genteel good folk who team up with the oppressed folks to create social change.

13

I agree with your first two words: you don’t know. Haw hee hee haw! The rest simply ain’t so, I never done no damn such thing a-tall, and I’m fixin’ tuh whup yore sorry hide sideways for spreadin’ them damnable lies. I demand satisfaction, suh! Dammit, you done got my britches up and runnin’.

You did a fine of job of elaborating your abbreviated point, though I suspect the vast majority of those people also share a common generalized culture, much as Americans from Hawaii to the Gullah Sea Islands do. I just deplored the use of that abombinable plural, “Souths.” We were speaking of a specific southern culture, the once dominant regional elite that covered the south like dew: Dixie.

14

The Nine Nations of North America was written in 1981.

15

PUBLISHED in 1981, which means the manuscript was more or less finalized a couple of years earlier.

Good call, flickster!

16

Random thoughts from one who was raised in the South:

There are a lot of Northern folk, particularly women, who get a genuine kick at Southern Gentlemen’s habit of always saying “Yes m’am” and “No m’am.” The men don’t make a fuss out of being addressed by “Yes sir” and “No sir,” but you can tell it is usually appreciated.

I don’t understand why our attraction to grits is not universally understood. I mean, they have Cream of Wheat. Very similar. If I can’t get grits where I am on an assignment, Cream of Wheat is a perfectly acceptable substitute.

“Didn’t I tell you to wait in the truck?” is a low-level insult. It does not mean that we literally said for you to wait in the truck.

Remember that a true Southern Gentleman will be unfailingly polite to you until he’s mad enough to kill you.

17

Yeah we Southerners are generally a polite bunch, be nice to us and we’ll be nice to you. You got a problem with that?

18

Askia Forgive me if I have you confused with someone else but in my somewhat long time lurking here I seem to remember you as being African-American. Surely it would offend you if I were to paint all black people with such a broad brush? Or what If I were to make a mockery of the way “all” blacks talked, despite the fact that my basis may just be due to how the media potrays a sub-culture? Really, it astounds me that no one else aside from tomndebb has raised an eyebrow at your sterotyping here. Even if you aren’t African-American, look at what your doing from the other side of the coin, and it seems rather instigating wouldn’t you say?

19

Here’s a thing:

I wasn’t born there, but I did spend most of my growing-up years in Central Florida (Atlantic coast) - not considered “the South” by many, but certainly closer to it than South Florida.

Anyway, the way I recall being taught, there was a certain type of manners displayed that I don’t see going on out here in the West (or, more specifically, the PNW) - much like the “Miss Manners”-type of behavior.

When guests come to my house, I ask them if they want something to drink, and I get it for them. I put out the clean towels if they’re spending the night. Things like that. On the other hand, when I go to their house, if they do not offer anything, I wait until it becomes uncomfortable before I ask. And I would never dream of helping myself.

The guests that come to my house believe in helping themselves (which I hate) and if I get something for them, they call too much attention to it (inappropriate). If I am an overnight guest, I often have been treated as if I’m an inconvenience.

I’ve always attributed it to a difference between “Southern” and “Western” manners. I might have done so wrongly.

Anyone else know what I’m talking about?

20

Ooh and I HATE that. I think that’s just an awful trait. I can’t stand it when I only find out after the fact that something I did annoyed or angered someone, and then I realize that everything they said to me and every reaction they faked was a lie; their whole demeanor was a put-on. It is insulting to me, and humiliating. It makes people seem untrustworthy and it makes me wary of ever being around them, because I can’t know if they are being genuine or just “faking to make nice”. There are several people whose company makes me extremely nervous for exactly this reason, and I will go to lengths to not have to be at the same place at the same time as them.