This is likely to devolve pretty quickly. Let me say first what I’m not doing:
[ul]
[li]I’m not calling all conservatives crazy. I grew up in a conservative family in one of the most conservative areas of the US. For years now, I’ve been trying to grapple with the idea that most of those who call themselves conservatives seem to be a lot less reasonable on certain issues than people who (dare) call themselves liberals. I am honestly trying to figure this out. There are many smart people whom I’m happy to count among my family and friends who nonetheless happen to espouse beliefs that I find utterly detached from reality (beliefs which I once held). [/li][li]I am not saying that all conservatives are obsessed with guns.[/li][li]I’m not saying that any conservative who owns a gun is obsessed with guns.[/li][li]I’m not saying that the 2nd amendment does not entail the right of individuals to own firearms (I’m not saying it does either). I do believe that there is a good case to be made for responsible people owning guns, but my view towards the 2nd Amendment is pretty well illustrated in this Daily Show clip with Wyatt Cenac (about 4:00 in), in that I don’t see it as one worth focusing on with the vigor that conservatives seem to, apparently disregarding or downplaying other amendments. [/li][/ul]
**NOTE:**The above is not up for debate, unless it is absolutely relevant to the question below. I only mention it in hopes of stemming some of the off-subject comments that might arise when asking such a question.
So my question is this: Given the ongoing run on gunsandammo and the seeming increase in militiagroups (and given that, as I understand, similar trends were seen during the Clinton presidency), what is the equivalent preoccupation among liberals that trends up when a Republican president comes into office? Is there any measurable tendency among people who call themselves liberals when a Republican is in office?
Let me stress “measurable.” It doesn’t have to prove that there is a link between Republican presidents and increased purchases/production/use of X, but it should make a strong suggestion, just as the information above to doesn’t prove anything…
Stereotypically speaking, conservatives are preoccupied with the 2nd amendment while liberals are preoccupied with the 1st amendment. The idea that Bush would curtail civil rights and freedom of speech during his time in office was a big concern (without commenting on how much validity I think the concern may or may not have had).
Every election cycle, it seems to be that the Republicans will criminalize abortion. And though I think many want to, they aren’t stupid enough to kill the goose that lays the golden egg. Just like a federal anti-gay marriage amendment would be a disaster for them.
I don’t know. Maybe I’m one of the preoccupied liberals, but I think there is a better chance of a conservative administration overturning Roe than Obama banning guns or ammunition. Call me biased, but I think worrying about Roe is realistic when the right is in power.
On a side note, I think it’s absolutely hilarious that the price of ammo has gone up. Consumers have done this to themselves out of irrational fear. Yes, I said irrational. Obama couldn’t ban guns or ammo even if he wanted to.
Even in Canada it’s abortion. We’ve had a Conservative government for four years. The concern before they were elected was they’d create abortion law (Canada hasn’t any law of any sort concerning abortion.) The concern before they were re-elected was abortion. Yet the Conservatives have never said they would pass an abortion law, have never touched the issue, have never expressed any interest in doing anything about it, have no current plans to, obviously never will, and if they did would quite clearly lose a confidence vote in the House and lose the subsequent election. The chances of the Conservatives banning abortion are zero and the chances they’ll even TRY are one in a trillion.
And yet it remains a constant source of inexplicable panic.
Friends and family are a random sample. The Straight Dope (for example) is a self-chosen sample. Nearly all liberals hold irrational beliefs in corporate conspiracies, the military-industrial complex, etc. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if most liberals hold a lot of the same beliefs as nearly all conservatives, that gay marriage is bad, we should have prayer in school, etc. But, they prefer the big government, social programs more than little government, less taxes and when it comes time to vote, home finances come first. Both parties are led by an intellectual elite who have reasonable and fairly progressive ideas. If you only spent time in the company of those of that group, you would get a fairly well-adjusted and reasonable outlook on the world. But as the party with the fewer number of voters, the conservative elite have to give lip to homophobic, fundamentalist followers to still have a fighting chance of getting elected. The liberal elite are more able to ignore the stupider classes of their following because what they offer – free goodies – doesn’t require any more work.
During the Bush Admin, liberal preoccupations about Administration abuse of power, actual or potential, included:
Civil-liberties issues, such as the USA PATRIOT ACT, unwarranted wiretapping, treating “War on Terror” prisoners as “unlawful enemy combatants” enjoying the legal protections neither of criminal defendants nor of prisoners of war, open-ended detentions of same without access to counsel or recourse to the courts, allegations of torture and CIA-run “black prisons,” and FBI/DHS surveillance of domestic opponents of the Administration.
Election/voting issues, such as “purging” of voter rolls, “caging” of voters to be challenged at the polls, other voter-intimidation tactics, “black box” electronic voting machines that might be rigged, the Admin’s firing of U.S. Attorneys who failed to be aggressive about “voter fraud.”
Free-speech issues, such as Administration opponents being confined to special “free speech zones” during public events.
Unilateral legislation or extraconstitutional effective vetoing of legislation by the Administration by use of “signing statements.”
Fears the Admin would declare a “state of emergency” and cancel the 2004 or 2008 election, or declare martial law, etc.
There were GD threads on all of these topics during the Bush years.
I’m as liberal as they come. But I also don’t think the opposition is stupid (evil maybe, but not stupid ). Reagan showed them how to do it. Keep abortion on the front burner. Generate donations and motivate the base. You have an abortion ban and a full gay marriage ban, and the religious right is going to be less engaged in politics.
There’s also the effect the Democrats finally realized about guns. It’s a vote loser. Those who want guns banned, or who want abortion banned, are going to vote Democrat or Republican respectively anyway. But if the Republicans succeded in banning abortion, they’d lose a shed load of voters. When the Democrats went overly anti-gun, it cost seats in states like Pennsylvania that they could nto afford to lose.
Not looking forward to my next trip to stock up. :mad:
How about environmental issues?
Some liberals have a preoccupation and paranoia with these.
Like some conservatives certainty of the impending end of days revolution when the guv’mnt comes to take their guns some liberals seem certain of the impending end of days if we don’t stop global warming.
Thankfully, I wasn’t saying that my views are based on anecdotal thinking. I mentioned friends and family to say that I try hard not to caricature people based on what I view as some incredibly irrational beliefs. I know that they are not stupid people. That’s all I was saying, sorry if I was not clear.
While I would disagree with parts of that, I agree by and large with the point. Unfortunately, none of that is what I’m asking in the question. Unless I’m missing something.
Your point, as I read it, was that conservatives believe wacky things, divorced from reality, and have irrational fears tied to a few of those, like gun control. Since it’s likely that the sort of liberals who also believe wacky things, divorced from reality, believe in the same things, gun control is probably a worry among liberals. Gay marriage is probably a worry among liberals. They’re in deathly fear that their own leaders will make it legal.
But they also have fears like corporate control over government (which might take away their securities like the minimum wage, safety regulations, standardized working hours, etc.) or of a military-industrial complex that secretly runs everything. President Bush and Dick Cheney’s bonds with Big Oil struck panic through the democrats as proof that the military-industrial complex was moving in to establish some sort of Fascist state in the US.
Abortion rights might be the best choice, but there’s also the draft issue. I don’t think Democrats typically get accused of scheming to bring back the draft, but the issue popped up over and over again during the Bush years even though the administration never made a move toward doing so.
Of course, the problem with that comparison is that climate scientists overwhelmingly support the theory of climate change. Agree with it or not, that’s a choice, but there is plenty of evidence.
On the other hand, there’s no evidence that Obama is going to come and take everyone’s guns, nor is there any evidence to suggest that Obama intends to do any of the stuff the NRA says he would. In one of the articles about the militia protest that I linked to, it happened about the same time that Obama was signing a bill supporting gun carrying.
Hmmm…I remember Charlie Rangel arguing that we should bring back the draft just a few years ago. Looks like the left was worried about the wrong party.
You remember wrong, and if you read as far as the second paragraph of that story, you will see why. Rangel was trying to make a political point and did not want to bring back the draft.
Reflecting what others have said, it seemed like there were an awful lot of liberals who were afraid that Bush was going to establish some sort of theocracy, which I felt :rolleyes: about.
That’s not to say that there weren’t plenty of religious conservatives in positions of power during the Bush years, but the administration’s overall goals didn’t really align with those of the religious right. They’d pay lip service to stuff like gay marriage and abortion but then do the bare minimum (in some cases not even that) to appease the moral majority types.
). Reagan showed them how to do it. Keep abortion on the front burner. Generate donations and motivate the base. You have an abortion ban and a full gay marriage ban, and the religious right is going to be less engaged in politics.