Then I know an awful lot of stupid people - I don’t think I’ve ever met but perhaps a handful of people in my entire life (and I have many, many well-educated and worldly-wise friends) who have heard of UUism off the cuff, let alone know anything about us. Like I said, most people either assume by the name it’s some kind of cult, or, after hearing about what we believe in, say, “But that’s not a real religion…”
My mother once told me that Catholics worship statues.
I respectfully disagree.
I respectfully agree.
Esprix
Next time I want your opinion I’ll beat it out of you.
I’m bumping this back up for Pashley and others in some of the religion forums that have come up lately, if they wanted to check out some UU information.
Let me warn everybody, first of all, that I love to use overextended analogies.
My theory of religions is based on the pizza theory. If you can find a religion that basically covers the things you believe then go there. But most conservative religions seem to have a few things I don’t agree with. So I just pick off and throw away the stuff I don’t like. On the other hand liberal religions seem to be so busy trying to not offend anyone that they end up with a lowest common denominator religion, like cheese only pizza, theres nothing objectional, but it just isn’t filling in the way I wanted when I decided to have pizza in the first place. I would personally have a nice loaded conservative-religion pizza and pick off the anchovies and olives.
Do you ever get the feeling that everybody thinks you’re paranoid?
Well, I was raised Catholic, but i got bored with it, and didn’t agree that a preist could forgive my sins. Its between you and God.
I go to a Foursquare church now. its Pentecostal, but my pastor said you can find people who love Jesus in almost any church, Jehvahs Witnesses, Catholics, etc. Its not really the denomination, its whats in your heart.
Maybe this doesn’t belong on this thread, but the doctrine of the Trinity (which UU’s don’t accept), seems to me to be a curious one. The NT mentions the Holy Ghost/Spirit, and of course God the Father (Jesus referred to himself as the “son of man”). Why did this doctrine become such an important issue? And why do UUs rehect it?
Interesting analogy. Speaking for the UU’s, I can say that we might start with a more basic, plain pizza, but your slice might have pepperoni, someone else’s might have anchovies, and someone else’s might have the works. Surprisingly, this works well for us (although it plays hell with the delivery boys {hee hee}). UUism, however, is a bit more unique than others.
Although I do not know the history behind why it became an issue, UU history is fairly clear on it (although I should really do a little more research on it).
My understanding is that Universalists believed that, come Judgement Day, everyone would be saved regardless of whether they professed Jesus as their Saviour or their religious beliefs. This, of course, was heresy. Unitarians rejected the idea of the Trinity and believed in one God - also heresy. Both were Christian denominations and have been around for hundreds of years; they joined as Unitarian Universalists in 1961, although individual Unitarian and Universalist churches still exist around the world.
Now, as to why these things happened, I don’t know - I’m just espousing historical data.
Roman Catholics: Thick crust NY style with everything (hold the pepperoni and sausage on Fridays; but leave the anchovies) Episcopalians: Gourmet wood-fired Lutherans: Extra sausage Pentecostals: Deep dish Hindus: Vegetarian New-age religions: Pesto, sun-dried tomatoes, and alfalfa sprout, on whole wheat crust Mormons: I’ll take two pizzas, please Jews: Would it hurt you to eat something other than pizza every once in a while? Jehovah’s Witnesses: They just deliver the pizzas
I once wrote a poem in which the controlling metaphor was religion as pizza. I was in a college writing class at teh time, of course, the veritable spawning ground of pretentiousness. Still, I had fun presenting it at readings for a while.
the above, of course, is not particularly germane to the OP, but I am an athiest and I don’t know whether Pashley would approve of my opinions being expressed in a religious thread.
The best lack all conviction
The worst are full of passionate intensity.
*
Earlier you stated that the UUs are talking with the Boy Scouts of America to ask them (I take it) to start including Gays and Atheists.
[list=1][li]Why should the Boy Scouts do this?[/li][li]Should boys be allowed to go to an all-girls college?[/li][li]Should we catholics sit down and have talks with you UUs about including Holy Communion in your services?[/li][li]What next, women at PK meetings?[/list=1][/li][/quote]
[list=1][li]The Boy Scouts is not analogous to every type of inclusive organization. The argument from a legal standpoint is that the Boy Scouts is not a private, but rather a public accommodation, and that’s why there’s been such a stink. (IIRC, the NJ Supreme Court found it to be a public accommodation, but it is, of course, on appeal.) So, assuming it is a public accommodation, should they be allowed to exclude gay kids and Atheists? No, I don’t believe so, and my minister and my faith agree.[/li][li]Should boys be allowed to go to an all-girl college? I suppose, legally, they should be able to; personally, I’m kind of iffy on the idea - to me it would be an injustice to the student not to be exposed to a diversity of life and opinions, but then again, that’s their choice to make. Same goes with all-ethnic colleges - I see the point, but I don’t know if it’s such a good idea for me or my kids.[/li][li]Should UU’s perform Catholic communion? No - that’s what Catholic churches are for. Plus, churches are inherently private organizations. Besides, we have our own communion - COFFEE! :D[/li][li]What does PK stand for?[/list=1][/li]
Esprix
Oh, and on the topic of communion, UU’s have and do explore Christianity and different sects thereof, so not only has it been talked about in religious classes and sermons, but both ministers and some Religious Education (our version of Sunday School) students actually go to different types of religious services, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they’d taken communion somewhere, just for the experience.
I don’t understand why an Atheist A)Would want to join a God-based (for lack of a better term) organization, or B)Why they should be allowed to.
It just seems like they want to stir up trouble.
As a side note along those lines, in Rochester (NY) we had these group of women, about 10 years ago, that every year, would hold a topless outing in a public park. They were called the “Topfree 7”. Their agenda was to allow women to be topless in public like men can. They won, they got the law changed. But much to my chagrin, you never see any women in public going topless! Just seems like they wanted to stir up trouble.
Again, I wouldn’t mind seeing that , but I don’t think it’s proper in a public place.
Patrick Ashley
‘The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.’ -Edmund Burke
As I said, the BS were considered by at least one higher court as a public accommodation - that’s why they should be allowed to; otherwise, it’s discrimination.
Were you ever a BS? I, myself, was not, but I remember I really, really wanted to be, because all my friends were and it seemed like a lot of fun (alas, my mother didn’t want to shell out money for a uniform and such and support my growing music addiction). A kid of BS age may be being raised an Atheist, but that’s not what he’s most concerned about - he wants in on the fun like the rest of his friends. Should he be denied that? The other kids didn’t kick him out, the Scoutmaster did. And if the kid’s parents don’t mind him being in a theist-oriented organization (evidently teaching him differently at home from what he might be taught in Scouts), then why should the BS care anyway? The whole thing seems rather silly to me.
SINNER! Having lustful, impure thoughts about women! Repent, or feel the fires of Hell itself!
(You just know you opened yourself up for that, didn’t you? :D)
Seriously, are you sure it wasn’t tangentially related to the freedom to breast-feed in public? Or perhaps for a nude beach somewhere? Where the heck do you live, anyway?
Esprix, who knows several lesbians who might want to move into your neighborhood…
Several years ago, my mother started attending a UU church. When she told her grandmother that she was going to church, my grandmother was delighted. Grandma asked which church, and my mom told her, “Well, it’s the Unitarian Universalist church.” My grandma just sighed, and said “Leave it to you, Cheryl, to find a church that you can wear jeans to.”
I went with my mom a few times. You guys do seem like a very pleasant group of people.
This space blank, until Wally thinks up something cool to put here.
Not completely true, Esprix. There are several major, mainstream denominations that are very liberal. Methodists profess against what they call ‘duality’-ie., there is no satan, no hell. The claim God is bigger than to allow ‘duality’. They also perform homosexual ‘marriages’ and accept openly homosexual ministers into their church. There is also a segment of the Episcopalian (The Church of England) church which is liberal on these kinds of issues.
There are also two Baptist churchgroups. The Southern Baptists (Pat Robertson is one) are all hell fire and damnation. There is another group, can’t remember the name at the moment, who is also more liberal.
And, as a former Catholic, I can tell you that church is not about to change much anytime soon.
So what’s the point of going to a UU (or similar) church? The church’s beliefs seem to boil down to ‘do what you think you should do,’ so it seems kind of pointless to me to have a church. Isn’t religion supposed to provide answers for how to live your life, not just tell you that you should have been doing whatever you felt like doing in the first place?
