Probably because being compared to someone as ditzy and snotty as Hasselbeck is NOT a compliment?
You know, Sarahfeena, I’ve always liked you, but this really is incredibly insane. I could turn this around-you’re complaining about how liberals are always talking about tolerance, but aren’t so tolerant themselves?
Well, in this thread it seems that conservatives are always saying how much they despise the victim mentality…yet they have the biggest victim complex of anyone.
Hmmm?
I apologize if I was unclear.
Allow me to rephrase and hopefully make my original intent a bit more clear.
How can it not be bigoted to actively work and vote towards not allowing homosexuals the right to marry?
The true meaning is, “What we do not have to be tolerant of is those who wish to oppress blacks, women, and gays.” I don’t see any particular reason to go digging for a deeper subtext, unless you’re deliberately looking for a reason to be offended.
But then, that’s pretty much all you do around here, isn’t it?
Well, I’d have gone with, “sexists, racists, and homophobes” before “conservatives.” But even if a fair number of liberals do make that assumption, you haven’t given any evidence that tdn is making that assumption. Indeed, he’s specifically disavowed it.
Is it elves?
You really are one of the most openly delusional people I’ve ever met. And that includes random street people who think that Jesus is talking to them through an empty beer can.
Guin,I like you, too. But seriously, if you and DianaG are going to completely change your opinion of me or think that I am insane over something this silly, then I really don’t know what to say.
Indeed. I think her problem is that she hasn’t had to deal with kids of that age yet. I went to a middle school parents orientation before my oldest started, and the principal said that we would find our kids of that age “interesting.” (He meant little monsters.) Kids going through puberty aren’t very sane. Politics has nothing to do with it.
[bolding mine]
Are you fucking serious? “The left” has new media in its pocket?
Well, I’M familiar with it, and the last time I checked, the “Fairness Doctrine” (if you’re talking about the FCC one, that is), was abolished in 1987. :dubious:
[sub]dumbass[/sub]
Now, IF said kids were being cruel-I will say, I do believe school should be less tolerant of bullying. NOT as this “zero tolerance”, half-assed measures, like banning kids from playing certain games, or whatever. I’m talking REAL discipline. Kids being threatened physically? Detention, inschool suspension, etc. Some of the shit that goes on, if it had been committed by adults against coworkers, would be grounds for assault charges. But for some reason, in schools, it’s no big deal. And that goes for liberal, conservative, gay, straight, black, white, Chinese, Arab, Christian, Muslim, WHATEVER.
It doesn’t sound like she went through half the shit I did, or my friends did. I hate this “kids will be kids.” I want to make it clear I’m saying this had nothing to do with politics, however, and everything to do with the fact that kids are asshats. They shouldn’t be ALLOWED, however, to ACT like asshat.
ETA: Sorry, didn’t see it. Sarahfeena, change my attitude towards you? More like, I thought better of you-this is something I’d expect from Shodan, or Starving Artist. These kinds of stereotypes are stupid. Are all conservatives like the ones on Free Republic?
All right, I’ll cop to it. If someone wants to deny blacks any of the rights that whites have, if someone wants to deny women any of the rights that men have, or if someone wants to deny gays any of the rights that straights have, then I’ll gladly call them an oppressor. I will NOT advocate that their right to free speech be removed. I will NOT advocate that any of their rights, period, be removed, in fact. But I will shout and protest in MY voice against their voice, and my voice will call them bigoted oppressors.
If that’s intolerance, then fine, I’ll be intolerant of bigotry, and I’ll gladly call those sorts oppressors. Make up the T-Shirts.
N.B.: I did not say that I’m intolerant of conservatism, and you’re unfairly conflating the two, Starving Artist (and I think you know that, at some level). If someone who holds any or all of these bigoted beliefs is a conservative, I’ll be “intolerant” towards them because of the bigotry, not because of the conservatism. If someone wants to argue that taxes should be cut or prayer should be mandatory in schools, I’ll disagree with them, but I won’t be intolerant in the slightest.
I’ll say this: there is no group of human beings that does not include assholes in it, there never has been, and there probably never will be. There are liberal assholes, there are conservative assholes, there are Jewish assholes, there are Catholic assholes, there are gay assholes, there are straight assholes, and so on and so forth. The existence of an asshole in a group of people does not mean all people in that group are assholes.
OTOH, it’s human nature to defend the assholes in “your” group and think that everybody in the other group must be like that to one degree or another. But, as JK Rowling said in one of the Harry Potter books, “The world isn’t divided into good people and Death Eaters.” You can substitute “liberals” or “conservatives” for “Death Eaters”, and it’s still true. Or you can substitute “people who agree with the local majority opinion on whatever issue”- it sounds awkward, but it’s still true.
Are assholes who agree with local majority opinion perhaps more vocal about their dislike of those who disagree with them than those who hold a minority opinion? Maybe so, or maybe you just see more of them because there are more of them around (that’s what it means to have a majority opinion, after all). But don’t think there aren’t people on the other side of the issue who’d be just as bad given the chance. There is no issue and no religious group that has succeeded in preventing jerks from claiming agreement or membership if they want to, and I doubt very much there ever will be (if a religion manages it, I’ll start to suspect that the leader might be the Messiah, seriously).
What do you want us liberals to do about the fact that there are liberals who are assholes? We can’t really kick them out. Anyone who says “I’m a liberal” can be considered one- there’s no central authority that can say “no, you’re not”. You have the same problem- I’m sure there are some people who identify as conservatives who you want nothing to do with, but you can’t really do anything about their identifying themselves as conservatives.
Yes, we all are. That’s why I’m hanging out here, and not over there. :dubious:
You can’t stand yourself either?
… little joke there …
So why is it okay to judge “liberal tolerance” by the actions of these assholes at said middle school? I understand you’re upset about the school your son will be attending. But what about the fact that many of our posters here have been denied the right to marry (in CA)?
:dubious:
You know what, I think I’m going to use this as a sig. I know it wasn’t your’s, and I will credit Rowling, but I’ve always liked it.
I thought this was a terrible pun when I first read it.
Ah, but you see Guin, a handful of Democrats have brought up the possibility of reinstating it. This, of course, has led to certain people (dumbasses) to rail about how Obama is going to use it to silence the good, respectful, conservative broadcasters.
Funny this is, even though they know it has some important opponents, they still love using it as a scare point.
I have some extra outrage if you want. You can have it cheap. In fact, the first hit’s free.
Giraffe, don’t do it! Next thing you know, you’ll be breaking into the ADL, just to see if they have some extra outrage in the copy room.
I’m late to the party and definitely too late to prevent Sarahfeena from lying down with dogs and coming up with fleas based on the company she is keeping in this thread… but I did see some rather obnoxious and intolerant behavior from the pro-Obama kids in the middle school where I teach. My town is wildly liberal, so the Obama supporters greatly outnumbered the McCain kids (80% to 20% in the school election). They put up a big OBAMA sign in the hallway, and privately, several kids told me it made them feel weird, so I took it down. A kid got in my face about it, called me a “McCain lover” and said “this is war.” :rolleyes: This is not liberal behavior. This is rude, annoying, bullshit tweener behavior.
There were also several vocal pro-McCain kids who were trolling for negative responses too. One kid made a 3’ tall hat out of construction paper with McCAIN written on it and tried to insist he be allowed to wear it in class. No. No propagandizing in my class, esp. not if it blocks the view of the chalkboard. Sorry. He definitely relished the hostility of his peers, and said things like, “You want to vote for a terrorist? Fine, go for it.” And expressed faux outrage when kids wanted to punch him. This is not conservative behavior. This is rude, annoying, bullshit tweener behavior.
I am pro-Obama, but unlike some of my co-workers, I did not display propaganda, and I argued both sides with the kids. When a pro-Obama kid said something ignorant, I corrected him and did the same to the pro-McCain kids. The most egregious incident was when one kid said, “His name is Barack HUSSEIN Obama. Now, what do you think THAT means? He’s a Muslim terrorist.” I pointed to his friend, standing right next to him. “See your buddy right there? His middle name is Mohammed (and it was, actually-- a perfect teachable moment because the kid is not Middle Eastern or Muslim). Does that mean he’s a terrorist? Heck, doesn’t mean he’s a Muslim either. Don’t judge people based on their names. You might miss out on some cool people that way.” The child was suitably sheepish, and his friend thought it was hilarious to go around claiming to be a terrorist for the rest of the day by virtue of his middle name.
OTOH, I saw very similar obnoxious propagandizing every year that the Yankees were in the World Series, sometimes even more negative and divisive. It is meaningless, I assure you, because I guarantee that 95% of the kids espousing political opinions have no fucking idea why they support Candidate X, except that their parents do. Some of them can repeat basic talking points but their political views tend to have little substance. It’s just another us v. them thing, which is what middle school is all about: defining yourself, usually at the expense of those who are different.
Middle school kids are not liberals or conservatives. They are hormone-addled quasi-adolescent maniacs. I don’t know why anyone would extrapolate anything from this about liberalism or conservatism. I love ya, Sarahfeena, but I suspect you posted this because you were hoping to have a ‘gotcha ya’ moment with the reactions of the liberals on this board. And yeah, the kids were probably rude to the girl in your article, but they would have found something else to be rude about if it weren’t her McCain t-shirt. And that’s the bottom line.
This post troubles me. You seem to be implying that my motives are something other than pure.
Great post, Rubystreak! Can’t respond at length, right now, but just wanted to say that I really wasn’t hoping it would be a gotcha ya. I got pretty much the reaction I expected, other than I suppose I didn’t expect that what I said would be considered so obnoxious that it would change anyone’s opinion of me.
Believe me, I don’t take the actions of middle schoolers quite that seriously…but I do wish more of our teachers were like you. 