Liberal Tolerance on parade at a local middle school...

[tdn]

@Starving_Artist

See, here’s a classic example of liberalism in action. One can’t simply disagree with you without being labled an ‘oppressor’.

Wow, like a bad marksman, you keep missing the point. Are you doing that deliberately?

I never said that someone was an oppressor for wanting lower taxes or a stonger military. That’s you putting words in my mouth. Stop that.

What I’m saying, as one example, is that I think the defeat of Prop 8 would have been a good thing, as I believe that gays should be afforded the rights that the rest of us have. That’s tolerant of me, I’m sure most reasonable people would agree. I think it’s a bad idea to enact a constitutional amendment that turns a segment of the population into second class citizens. It’s bigotry. Now I know that not all conservatives voted yes on 8, and not all liberals voted no on it. But I think it’s a safe bet that most of the yes votes were conservative.

Not that it matters. I oppose those that voted yes no matter their political stripe.

Are you seriously saying that for me to be a consistent liberal, I must be tolerant of the bigotry? That’s some interesting “logic” you’ve got going on there.

[NurseCarmen]

@Shodan

Don’t worry about it, Sarahfeena - everyone knows that Obama supporters are models of tolerance.

Wow. The only thing missing to make that story any more believable would have been if she had a backwards ‘B’ carved into her cheek.

[tdn]

@Miller

And here’s a classic example of Starving Artist’s rampaging persecution complex. tdn is explaining what the liberal concept of tolerance really means, as opposed to your strawman version of it. You’re the one who extrapolated that to mean, “Conservatives are all bigots!” There’s absolutely nothing in tdn’s post to suggest that interpretation.

Thank for at least trying to understand what I’m saying. Og knows that Starving Artist will put no effort into it. His mind is made up, no amount of logic or explanation will penetrate it.

[Cervaise]

@Miller

And here’s a classic example of Starving Artist’s rampaging persecution complex.

Nah, not a persecution complex. He’s just a douchebag.

[DianaG]

It’s not like those things are mutually exclusive. He’s a douchebag with a persecution complex.

[Revenant_Threshold]

@Starving_Artist

Well yeah, you pretty much do…in this very thread as a matter of fact.

I disagree. Certainly there’s some accusations of trollery. But no-one’s calling for her to be expelled or suspended, or even any kind of action, official or otherwise. No-one’s calling for the destruction of her shirt. And while in general people are tending to not be shocked and appalled at the treatment by her peers, no-one seems to be saying “good on them!”.

Perhaps you’re unfamilar with the “Fairness Doctrine”, which, despite its having virtually all of the new and entertainment media plus much of the nation’s educational system in its pocket, the left has used to try to minimize or eliminate effective right-wing broadcasts.

I am unfamiliar with it. I hope you’ll not be offended if I don’t take your opinion of it as cold hard truth. But I’ll certainly admit there will be cases where liberals are intolerant in the form you’ve suggested. I simply don’t think that it is a majority, nor that all liberalism and liberals can be condemned so, nor that I cannot point to good examples refuting the idea that liberals are only tolerant of things they favour. It is quite considerable exaggeration and hyperbole and I don’t believe it does your arguments any favour.

Didn’t know you were bi or I probably wouldn’t have said that. (I am after all a compassionate conservative and wouldn’t have wanted to offend you. Seriously. Plus you’re a good guy.)

No problem, i’m unoffended. Unlike some I would not assume “conservative” equals gay-bashing irrational loon.

I’d watch out leaving that “compassionate” unqualified, though. People could use that word to imply all sorts of nonsense ideas to you.

[Starving_Artist]

@Miller

tdn is explaining what the liberal concept of tolerance really means, as opposed to your strawman version of it. You’re the one who extrapolated that to mean, “Conservatives are all bigots!” There’s absolutely nothing in tdn’s post to suggest that interpretation.

Oh, really? Then perhaps you can explain the true meaning behind the bolded part of his post, as follows:

“We desire a world in which people are not discriminated against for the way they are born, and for things that have absolutely no effect on the rest of us. Be tolerant of blacks, because they don’t deserve to be held back based on the color of their skin. Be tolerant of women, because they deserve the basic rights of any human. Be tolerant of gays, because what they do behind closed doors harms me in no way. What we do not have to be tolerant of is those who wish to oppress blacks, women, and gays.”

And who is automatically characterized by the left as posessing these traits and desires if not conservatives? Who is bullied and made fun of in a great number (if not a majority) of the nation’s schools simply for voting Republican? Who is insulted and villianized constantly around this very message board simply by virtue of their political ideology?

You’re full of shit on this one, Miller. Conservatism = hate, bigotry, sexism and oppression to virtually everyone on the left. You know it and I know it, and it’s this convicion that causes liberals to get into such high dudgeon that they feel they can rightfully assail and/or attack anyone who doesn’t agree with them.

[villa]

@Starving_Artist

Oh, really? Then perhaps you can explain the true meaning behind the bolded part of his post, as follows:

“We desire a world in which people are not discriminated against for the way they are born, and for things that have absolutely no effect on the rest of us. Be tolerant of blacks, because they don’t deserve to be held back based on the color of their skin. Be tolerant of women, because they deserve the basic rights of any human. Be tolerant of gays, because what they do behind closed doors harms me in no way. What we do not have to be tolerant of is those who wish to oppress blacks, women, and gays.”

And who is automatically characterized by the left as posessing these traits and desires if not conservatives?

You see, this is the huge jump you make. The people characterized by the left as possessing those traits are those who possess those traits. I have many people close to me who are Republicans through and through. I try and avoid having people close to me who are sexist, racist, or homophobic. If I refuse to tolerate those traits, it is not because the person holding them votes Republican, it is because those traits are abhorrent to me. And at the moment, and believe me, I think it is a tragedy for American politics, those character traits (especially homophobia) seem more likely to find a welcoming home in the Republican party.

[Jack_Batty]

@tdn

Wow, like a bad marksman, you keep missing the point.

KAAAAAAHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNN …

I saw it on Encore this morning too.

[tdn]

@Jack_Batty

KAAAAAAHHHHHHNNNNNNNNNNN …

I saw it on Encore this morning too.

You’re about to remind me that liberalism alone dictates your actions?

[Starving_Artist]

@tdn

I never said that someone was an oppressor for wanting lower taxes or a stonger military. That’s you putting words in my mouth. Stop that.

No, you implicitly condemned conservatives in general. And what is the reason for this? It’s because you’ve been inadvertently hoist on the petard of liberal intolerance yourself. Liberals in general…or at least the ones that come to the fore…are intolerant of conservatives, period.

@tdn

What I’m saying, as one example, is that I think the defeat of Prop 8 would have been a good thing, as I believe that gays should be afforded the rights that the rest of us have. That’s tolerant of me, I’m sure most reasonable people would agree. I think it’s a bad idea to enact a constitutional amendment that turns a segment of the population into second class citizens. It’s bigotry. Now I know that not all conservatives voted yes on 8, and not all liberals voted no on it. But I think it’s a safe bet that most of the yes votes were conservative.

If that’s what you’re saying, then you should have said that.

@tdn

Are you seriously saying that for me to be a consistent liberal, I must be tolerant of the bigotry?

No, I’m saying that a political ideology which has used its self-proclaimed status of being more tolerant of other viewpoints has shown itself to be nothing of the sort.

We are talking about schoolyard intimidation here. We are talking about college peer pressure. We are talking about people being assailed, made fun of and persecuted for nothing more than being/voting Republican.

You guys have made Republicans the enemy, and just like in wartime you stereotype the enemy and try to make him look as evil as possible…and that’s most amusing coming from a segment of society that has long been preaching tolerance for the other side.

The fact is, you guys just picked the wrong word. Now, thirty years on, you’re having to parse it to say that you don’t really mean tolerance for the other side; you just mean tolerance for your side.

[Starving_Artist]

@villa

You see, this is the huge jump you make. The people characterized by the left as possessing those traits are those who possess those traits. I have many people close to me who are Republicans through and through. I try and avoid having people close to me who are sexist, racist, or homophobic. If I refuse to tolerate those traits, it is not because the person holding them votes Republican, it is because those traits are abhorrent to me. And at the moment, and believe me, I think it is a tragedy for American politics, those character traits (especially homophobia) seem more likely to find a welcoming home in the Republican party.

One more thing and then I have to go.

One reason they may seem to find a home in the Republican party is that the ones posessing these traits in the Democratic party are either silent or ignored. (I’d be very interested to know exactly how many Democrats voted against the gay marriage bills for instance. I’d wager it’s a much higher percentage than you might imagine.)

Still, democracy depends on people being able to vote as they see fit, otherwise it’s a dictatorship. And there are way too many people in this country who are trying to intimidate and browbeat people into thinking and voting the way they want, and most of it is coming from the left.

I agree that this situation is not healthy for American politics.

[Bambro]

@Starving_Artist

and then you (liberalism that is, not you personally) turn around and call people bigoted assholes if they don’t agree with you.

How can it be anything other than bigoted to not want someone else to have the same rights that you enjoy?

[Equipoise]

@Starving_Artist

Perhaps you’re unfamilar with the “Fairness Doctrine”, which, despite its having virtually all of the new and entertainment media plus much of the nation’s educational system in its pocket, the left has used to try to minimize or eliminate effective right-wing broadcasts.

Wait, we have the Fairness Doctrine back? When did that happen?

God I need to pay more attention to politics. Bush brought back the Fairness Doctrine and I didn’t even notice!

[villa]

@Starving_Artist

One more thing and then I have to go.

One reason they may seem to find a home in the Republican party is that the ones posessing these traits in the Democratic party are either silent or ignored. (I’d be very interested to know exactly how many Democrats voted against the gay marriage bills for instance. I’d wager it’s a much higher percentage than you might imagine.)

Of course there are sexists, racists, and homophobes in the Democratic party. But, and that is why I particularly stressed homophobia, there is one party that is throwing its arms open to homophobes.

[tdn]

Starving Artist, I’m done arguing with you. I’ve explained what I believe to be the liberal position, and you simply refuse to see it. You have such a paranoid, unreasonable, dumbass concept in your mind that it’s clear that no amount of logic will convince you. You are a stubborn fucking mule.

I will say this, though: It’s generally considered bad form on this board to make shit up out of whole cloth. If you want to write complete fiction, then become a novelist.

[Guinastasia]

@Sarahfeena

Look, I’m not violently outraged by this. But this school is located very close to my house, and the treatment of this girl surprises me in no way, based on my own experiences in my neighborhood. I think it’s a shame that our communities have to be so divided by this kind of thing, and I think it IS ironic that liberals consider themselves the tolerant ones, because it ain’t so.

Bullshit. Again, it has jackall to do with liberals and everything to do with age. I remember when I was fourteen, one day I wore a big floppy blue hat, the kind of Mayim Bialik might have worn on Blossom, or Melissa Joan Hart would have on Clarissa Explains it All. I went to school that morning feeling very pretty-by the end of the day, I came home in tears, stuffed the hat in the corner of my closet, and never wore it again. I think you can guess the reaction of my classmates.

Another time, I remember being threatened physically because I wore my hair vaguely similiar to the way another girl did (with our bangs pulled back with a scrunchy), despite that my hair was shoulder length and straight, and her’s was long and curly. Kids do stuff like that simply because they can-to be hurtful.

Each of those incidents-had WHAT to do with politics?

@Shodan

Don’t worry about it, Sarahfeena - everyone knows that Obama supporters are models of tolerance.

You mean like this site, right Shodan? Did you know that Obama murdered his grandmother to win sympathy votes?

Fuck you.

[Revenant_Threshold]

@Bambro

How can it be anything other than bigoted to not want someone else to have the same rights that you enjoy?

Well, I don’t want murderers to have some of the same rights that I enjoy. I don’t want Americans voting in elections over here. It is not necessarily bigoted to not want someone else to have the same right you do, simply because of that.

[dropzone]

@Equipoise

God I need to pay more attention to politics. Bush brought back the Fairness Doctrine and I didn’t even notice!

Not only that, but he made it only count for liberals. Conservatives can go suck dick because the Fairness Doctrine denies them a voice.

And you people thought Bush was conservative, didn’t you?

[CannyDan]

Let’s talk about tolerance.

I was a hippy back in the day. I remain a “liberal” to this day. I am personally tolerant of things I dislike when manifested or displayed by other people.

I believe that fat people look ridiculous in skimpy clothing. I am fat, and I do not wear skimpy clothing. Still, I tolerate fat people who do. I do not point and grin, admonish them, or otherwise display my inner dislike.

I further believe that people who would judge others, especially those who would condemn or ostracize or attack others, on the basis of race, gender, or sexual orientation are fucktards. But I will tolerate them. In other words, if you make nasty comments about other people based on your bigoted opinions, I will usually just walk away. I’ll tolerate you.

Sometimes I may actually attempt to disuade you, or otherwise fight ignorance. But mostly I’ll tolerate and ignore you. Personally.

I’ll also tolerate expressions of political difference, provided they are respectfully couched. Perhaps we may even debate such issues while retaining respect. I welcome such exchanges.

So, yes, liberals like me believe we are tolerant.

But tolerance goes only so far. If you try to force your bigoted beliefs upon me, I will feel no obligation to remain tolerant. And when your bigotry infuses your politics, I have no tolerance at all.

However you conflate “Liberal” and “Democrat”, neither expresses a political ideal that would reduce or remove rights from another human being. “Conservatives” on the other hand condemn things like same sex marriage, and “Republicans” make that a plank of their political platform. I recognize that some Conservatives and some Republicans do not share this bigotry. Still, there seems enough evidence to conclude that, in this regard at least, “Conservative” and “Republican” correlates highly (but admittedly not exclusively) with bigot and fucktard.

I make no claim to be tolerant of such.

That said, I still fail to see how school children picking on a classmate over perceived differences has any correlation to liberal hypocricy over intolerance.